Did anyone watch the “Drive 4 COPD 300” at Daytona Speedway on Saturday?
Not to make light of a serious condition but could they be any more stereotypical...Team Spiriva is neck-n-neck with the Wife Beater brand band aids car.
Did anyone watch the “Drive 4 COPD 300” at Daytona Speedway on Saturday?
Not to make light of a serious condition but could they be any more stereotypical...Team Spiriva is neck-n-neck with the Wife Beater brand band aids car.
iceracer wrote: At one point as the pack, three abreast, came through a turn at an ungodly speed and no one touched. I was impressed. I think Dillon was at the rear then.
That's the issue I've had with the recent NASCAR nonsense. If they would get out of their own way and just let the drivers drive, you'd get a hell of a show out of it. Racing is all about who is faster, get rid of the plates and let the faster folks go faster. The slower folks will figure out how to go faster or they'll move on. That's life.
The only problem I have with NASCAR coverage is why in the blue berkeley is there so much TALKING? I mean, 2-3 hours of prerace before and about 7-8 more throughout the week. Like any motorsport there are intricacies and nuances but half of the shows are just about drama.
Streetwiseguy wrote: Denny Hamlin ran the last 150 laps with no radio, and finished second. That, my friends, was a good,hard days work.
As someone that's spotted before there, I can tell you that was extremely impressive. I would bet he was mentally exhausted afterwards, even more so that usual.
turboswede wrote:iceracer wrote: At one point as the pack, three abreast, came through a turn at an ungodly speed and no one touched. I was impressed. I think Dillon was at the rear then.That's the issue I've had with the recent NASCAR nonsense. If they would get out of their own way and just let the drivers drive, you'd get a hell of a show out of it. Racing is all about who is faster, get rid of the plates and let the faster folks go faster. The slower folks will figure out how to go faster or they'll move on. That's life.
With tracks like Daytona and Talledega, you'd need to do something else to keep speeds down if you take the plates off. In current form, without plates I'd bet the cars would do 220+mph. They already struggle to keep them on the ground when they get spun backwards at 190-195mph. IIRC, that's NASCARs' concern with it. At those speeds, it would be more likely for the cars to get into the stands. Maybe if they take off the plates but "dirty" up the cars or have Goodyear provide tires that can't stick if at full throttle through the corners.
Who hates Dale Jr? Good for him. Nice win.
Klayfish wrote:turboswede wrote:With tracks like Daytona and Talledega, you'd need to do something else to keep speeds down if you take the plates off. In current form, without plates I'd bet the cars would do 220+mph. They already struggle to keep them on the ground when they get spun backwards at 190-195mph. IIRC, that's NASCARs' concern with it. At those speeds, it would be more likely for the cars to get into the stands. Maybe if they take off the plates but "dirty" up the cars or have Goodyear provide tires that can't stick if at full throttle through the corners.iceracer wrote: At one point as the pack, three abreast, came through a turn at an ungodly speed and no one touched. I was impressed. I think Dillon was at the rear then.That's the issue I've had with the recent NASCAR nonsense. If they would get out of their own way and just let the drivers drive, you'd get a hell of a show out of it. Racing is all about who is faster, get rid of the plates and let the faster folks go faster. The slower folks will figure out how to go faster or they'll move on. That's life.
I've been advocating for this for yrs … take away most of their aero … mandate a front spring that would keep the front end off the pavement when they're on the brakes … give um back their motors… they'll have to lift and, god forbid, brake for the corners … accelerate on the straights … would actually be able to pass someone
shoot, they're actually going faster at some of the other tracks than they do at Daytona and Talladega … not ending up in the stands
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Who hates Dale Jr? Good for him. Nice win.
no hate .. really try not to use that word all that often …
but here's one that really doesn't have much use for him … with his lack of success over the yrs, the only reason he still has a ride is his name, and how popular he is with the fans that loved his Daddy
Klayfish wrote:turboswede wrote:With tracks like Daytona and Talledega, you'd need to do something else to keep speeds down if you take the plates off. In current form, without plates I'd bet the cars would do 220+mph. They already struggle to keep them on the ground when they get spun backwards at 190-195mph. IIRC, that's NASCARs' concern with it. At those speeds, it would be more likely for the cars to get into the stands. Maybe if they take off the plates but "dirty" up the cars or have Goodyear provide tires that can't stick if at full throttle through the corners.iceracer wrote: At one point as the pack, three abreast, came through a turn at an ungodly speed and no one touched. I was impressed. I think Dillon was at the rear then.That's the issue I've had with the recent NASCAR nonsense. If they would get out of their own way and just let the drivers drive, you'd get a hell of a show out of it. Racing is all about who is faster, get rid of the plates and let the faster folks go faster. The slower folks will figure out how to go faster or they'll move on. That's life.
BULLE36 M3! I refer to my previous comment about letting the drivers drive. If the cars are too fast, they can, ya know, slow down with the brakes or just breathing on the throttle.
The old stock cars doing 220 were scary and dangerous at those speeds. The modern cars are much safer and capable of protecting the driver in an wreck at those speeds.
The fact is, the plate races exacerbate the problem of big wrecks by forcing people to run at WOT for hours without much room to move, so you get one guy who loses focus for one second or there's a mechanical and BOOM. Car-nage. It's awesome to watch, but the drivers hate it, it is incredibly dangerous and they've spoken about it several times after large wrecks.
If they could spread out a bit, then the crashes would likely involve much fewer cars and more of the field could avoid the collision without wiping out 18+ cars.
wbjones wrote:Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Who hates Dale Jr? Good for him. Nice win.no hate .. really try not to use that word all that often … but here's one that really doesn't have much use for him … with his lack of success over the yrs, the only reason he still has a ride is his name, and how popular he is with the fans that loved his Daddy
The ride thing doesn't confuse me nearly as much as the "most popular driver" thing. Last night, he was happy, appreciative, talkative and humble. Most of the time he comes across as a mushmouthed spoiled brat.
He earned and deserved that win yesterday, and his post race reaction moved him up in my eyes.
Good for Dale Jr. on the win.
turboswede wrote:iceracer wrote: At one point as the pack, three abreast, came through a turn at an ungodly speed and no one touched. I was impressed. I think Dillon was at the rear then.That's the issue I've had with the recent NASCAR nonsense. If they would get out of their own way and just let the drivers drive, you'd get a hell of a show out of it. Racing is all about who is faster, get rid of the plates and let the faster folks go faster. The slower folks will figure out how to go faster or they'll move on. That's life.
Yeah, it worked out so well for Can-Am, GTP, and F1 when one or two cars dominate.
And the issue is not with driver safety, it's fan safety. Keeping the cars confined to the track is the biggest concern. Lawyers would have a field day if a car got into the stands.
turboswede wrote: The old stock cars doing 220 were scary and dangerous at those speeds. The modern cars are much safer and capable of protecting the driver in an wreck at those speeds.
Yes, I agree. But it's not the drivers that NASCAR is concerned with at those speeds. It's the fans. Even at 195mph, they have a hard time keeping the cars from going into the stands. See Kyle Larsons' crash there last year. At 220, I'd bet NASCAR is convinced that it's near impossible to completely prevent them from going into the stands. I hate restrictor plate racing, I'd love to see it go away. But with a car that weighs 3300lbs and doesn't have great aerodynamics compared to other race cars, they need to find a way to keep it under a certain speed.
Hmm, well with fewer multi-car pile-ups, the addition of the safer barriers and improved barrier technology it may not be as bad as it once was.
I do understand what you're saying, but that seems like something the track builders and owners should be actively working on and if that means moving people further away, then so be it. It won't be popular, but then again neither would be injuring fans which would be more of a nightmare to have happen.
Yay for NASCAR. It's better than watching most other sports on the weekend but it's not really that interesting watching a tube frame spec series drive around in circles using basic technology. Spec miata is more entertaining to watch. NASCAR is good at what they do, but I wouldn't call myself a fan.
I'm not optimistic with NASCAR controlling the premier road racing series in the U.S. Their rule changing and officiating so far leaves a lot to be desired. I'm disappointed with what I saw at Sebring practice as the DP's look like they will dominate the prototype class again. They haven't done a good job of blending the classes. And I'm sure there will be a phantom yellow in the last 30 min of the race just to bunch everyone up for a closer finish.
and you're surprised ?
the DP's came from a NASCAR owned series, and the P2's came from a not NASCAR owned series … was there ever any doubt which would be the faster car … at least for this yr ?
and yes to the "not optimistic" about the NASCAR control of the premier sports car racing series in the US … all we needed was to see the fake FCY in the last 30min of the Rolex 
I intended to watch the 500 but when it stopped for hours after only 38 laps I had seen enough. Racing series all over the world use grooved tires, windshield wipers, etc. and actually race. Open cars still race in the rain, open. Why can't these big manly men & woman race when it is raining. One of the things that makes real racing interesting is the strategy of when to go with "wets" or "drys." If they want to finish in the rain, back off a little in the rain. We do it everyday in the real world.
And we don't even want to talk about the yellow flags & the influence they have on finishing order. The debris on track flag is the one I hate the worst. Often it comes out and no one in the place or watching on TV can find any "debris" on the track.
^^^^
The rain here in Daytona on Sunday was severe--- Tornado warnings, hail, heavy, heavy rain. No racing series would have run in it--- well besides the Trophy Trucks. 
Not only was the track a flowing river, but it would have been irresponsible for the track to have continued with the very real threat of lightening strikes. F1 would not have run, neither would ALMS / Grand AM / Tudor.
Yes, some series race in the rain, but very few race in torrential downpours.
I'm all for getting rid of the restrictor plates but I definitely don't want to go back to the 70's when guys won races by laps. Laps! Boring! Indycar was the same way. I would really love to see some more short track stuff. Enough mile and a halfs, maybe more road courses. I would like to see them run at Iowa Speedway in real Chevys, Fords, and Toyotas. I know, it will never go back, but a guy can dream :D
My post was to give credit to the drivers ho have to race under these conditions. I don't like plate races either. Put a "bus stop" on each straight an remove the plates. Daytona already has one.
As stated, restrictor plates really are there to help protect the fans for the most part. We were caught up in "big one" at Daytona once, and when it was all over, the only straight part of the car was the roof, and it had a tire mark across it. It's so easy to get a car airborne at these speeds, and the faster you go, the more damage the car can do to the driver or fans. Keep in mind too that these cars are far, far heavier and that energy has to go somewhere. Some of it is of course to keep the cars equal.
Once at a Talladega test, we ran a handful of laps without the restrictor. If I remember correctly, it did about 30mph faster in top speed. Running at Daytona or Talladega without a restrictor is no issue by yourself, but it's a different story with a lot of cars around you. The turbulence increases as the speeds go up as well, as does the chance of aero issues. Even if you ran a "dirty" car, you've still got aero issues to deal with, maybe more than you have now. Cars now are a lot "smoother" than they were back in the day, and with this come additional challenges. It's easy to say lets just take it all away, it's another issue to make it all happen.
I've commented on this before, but if you think these are low tech, you need to go work on one. These aren't your grandfather's old stock cars. They spend about as much time in a wind tunnel as a F1 car.
I'm not the biggest Nascar fan either, but compared to our time road racing, the difficulty is probably at least a factor of 10. And it takes an appendage size much larger than say even Road Atlanta.
I think NASCAR should:
Go back to forcing manufacturers to run STOCK cars. Don't have a RWD car in the lineup? Tough. Better work on the FWD chassis. Don't have a V8? Better get out the turbo's to make this happen. No tube frames. No non-available motors in a rebadged custom race car. This would also bring younger fans in as they would see cutting edge tech being raced like it was in the through to the 80's.
Let the racers race. Stop with the ridiculous race result manipulations like debris flags at opportune times or yellow flags to bunch up the field.
Lower the damned ticket prices. Maybe then tracks would start selling out for every race again.
racerdave600 wrote: As stated, restrictor plates really are there to help protect the fans for the most part. We were caught up in "big one" at Daytona once, and when it was all over, the only straight part of the car was the roof, and it had a tire mark across it. It's so easy to get a car airborne at these speeds, and the faster you go, the more damage the car can do to the driver or fans. Keep in mind too that these cars are far, far heavier and that energy has to go somewhere. Some of it is of course to keep the cars equal.
all that is true (about the added speed without the plates) … but if you took away the aero/downforce … maybe keep the rear spoiler to try to keep the car somewhat stable … I really don't think you'd see 30+ mph increases .. I actually think the lap speeds would be about the same or even less (due to having to slow WAY down in the corners (lack of downforce)
but then there wouldn't be any pack "racing" and there wouldn't be the usual BIG ONE … which NASCAR seems to thing is all the fans want to see
as long as there are restrictors involved, the cars will run nose to tail and side by side .. and as unstable as they are at the ragged edge … the BIG ONE is always going to happen
Rupert wrote: I intended to watch the 500 but when it stopped for hours after only 38 laps I had seen enough. Racing series all over the world use grooved tires, windshield wipers, etc. and actually race. Open cars still race in the rain, open. Why can't these big manly men & woman race when it is raining. One of the things that makes real racing interesting is the strategy of when to go with "wets" or "drys." If they want to finish in the rain, back off a little in the rain. We do it everyday in the real world. And we don't even want to talk about the yellow flags & the influence they have on finishing order. The debris on track flag is the one I hate the worst. Often it comes out and no one in the place or watching on TV can find any "debris" on the track.
It's obvious you know nothing about rain tires.
mikeatrpi wrote: I'm glad they stuck through the rain delays and ran through all 200 laps. Danica took a hard hit and when they interviewed her it was like she didn't want to admit she was shaken up. Dale looked incredibly & genuinely happy with his win - as he should, breaking a long streak without one. I hope NASCAR doesn't fine him for un-buckling his safety gear while doing his victory lap.
They won't... It they do Nascar is a bunch of wankers.. A few years ago in Montreal one of their idiots (after a crash) took off his helmet, undid his belts, then drove back to the pits on a hot track. While giving the finger to rival's if I remember correctly.. He was penalized, for using his middle finger not safety violations.. I could be wrong about some of the details, it was a few years ago..
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