Does a Chevy v8 make a Jaguar better? It sure seems to make them more valuable.

In reply to Nathan JansenvanDoorn :

Fair enough.  Easy to misunderstand on the internet.  For example regarding power. Most small block swaps I've seen have been either Target masters ( new engine ) or Junkyard engines.   Complexity baffles a lot of people so they preferred the simplicity of a carburetor  over EFI. 
   Later LS engines are typically referred to as LS rather than small block which stopped production about 1998.  

Not to add fuel to the fire, but...

My parents nearly bought a V8-swapped Jaguar XKE back around 1995. It was a V12 car, and the owner got sick of messing with the constantly needy V12 and swapped in a built Buick 455 from a Grand Sport along with a TH400. It was also pink and/or purple. It did come with the original drivetrain, in case someone wanted to swap it back. 

Wonder what that would sell for now on BaT?  

I typed in "Jaguar with Chevy engine" on YouTube... I got tired of scrolling through the videos.  I didn't know there were that many people with $20kto spend on 160hp 350's!

I don't know what you guys are arguing about, and I don't really care to find out. But I think it's pretty safe to say that a Chev motor in just about anything makes it better. That includes Miatas.

In reply to Tony Sestito :

That I understand completely.    Most mechanics learn by monkey see monkey do ( including me)   The V12 in an XKE is so simple ( and massively well built).  But they may be familiar with a 4 barrrel while being terrified of 4 lawn mower simple side draft carbs.   Hint . It's called a unisyn to make sure each carb is properly set.  And the Strombergs used have a simple rubber  diaphragm which after about 5 years will develop cracks and need replacement. It's an Uber simple task that takes maybe 2 minutes per carb to perform. But if you don't know that, you are baffled. 
      The ignition system on those is even simpler.  No Spark?  Turn over the Lucas plastic module.   pull out  the GM module. Set it on the  counter of your local NAPA  or parts store and they will hand you a new one. $20 or so plug it it and spark happens.  
  Again if you don't know that and you go to the Jaguar dealer. It's 6 weeks  and $1300. 

      I saw mechanics tell owners the V12 needed rebuilding because - blah blah blah.  Nothing wrong except he wanted a look inside  and wanted a paycheck for doing it.  
     
 

To answer your question if it's a XKE ROADSTER  with wire wheels and a 4 speed manual.  Driver quality are selling around $75,000 

  But I doubt they got that Buick in without cutting the frame.    I'm guess but I think the frame is only something like 28 inches wide.   A V12 is a 60 degree V while a V8 is a 90 degree V.  Plus the bore of the Jaguar is only 3&3/4  while the Bore of the Buick is 4&1/8 or 4&1/4. 
     You'll be shocked at how light the right & Left  frames are ( they unbolt)  about 7&1/2 pounds each. 

The jag v12 in stock form is kinda meh at best it sounds good but the most horsepower it ever made was a bit over 300 hp net and that was with a 6 litre engine. Gm made 350 engines in corvettes and f body's etc with same or more horsepower with less displacement and cylinders. Most gm 350 crate engines are rated at 350 hp minimum so that would likely be a next rating somewhere in between 250 and 300hp.

It just needs the double overhead cam heads off of the XJ13 replica.

Building The Legend, a British firm that sells highly accurate replicas of the Jaguar XJ13

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

You really need to learn the difference between gross or Advertized horsepower and Net power.  That plus the XJS V 12 is over   4600 pounds.  Luxury weighs a lot!  You're up in Cadillac territory. 
   Take the V12 for example. Installed the 6.0 made 314  DIN* net horsepower.  But Jaguar wasn't in a horsepower war they were in a luxury war. Remember the Queen, PM, and other royalty used Daimlers ( Jaguars with different badges ) 
* DIN is 1.1% more powerful than  SAE
   The intakes on the engine were designed to quiet rather than make horsepower.  If you look they have a backward funnel small on the intake normal size going into the filter. 
  According to AJ 6 engineering that costs 30 net horsepower.   Then the intake picks up hot air at the radiator  again according to AJ6 that's 20 net horsepower. The reason for that is to improve  fuel mileage.

   Underneath you will see 4 mufflers and 2 resonators. Plus the catalytic converters 2 on each side  total of 4. 
  Remove the 4 mufflers and you'll barely hear the exhaust  but pick up 30 net horsepower.   That's 80 Net horsepower. To accept a normal noise level from the engine.  
   Stock valve lift on the Jaguar is 3/8"  put the same lift that Chevy uses and there is some real horsepower there.   According to the computer program it's 100 more horsepower
   My point?  
  When the V12 races Chevy's like at the SCCA Runoffs  Jaguar beat the Corvettes etc.  in IMSA the XJS  V12. was competitive and often beat everybody winning the championship .   Jaguar has won LeMans 7 times  5 times with their 6 and 2 times with the 12. Against BMW Mercedes and the best Europe had to offer on a tiny budget they won  the championship 3 times.  

        However, you are right sorta.   As a luxury car( Jaguar XJ12)  against a sportscar. ( Corvette) Well it's quiet. 

VolvoHeretic said:

It just needs the double overhead cam heads off of the XJ13 replica.

Building The Legend, a British firm that sells highly accurate replicas of the Jaguar XJ13

They are pricey though.  Did you know the later all aluminum 6 cylinder with 4 valves per cylinder was designed off the V12?   Yep!  head slides right on.   A quad cam 48 valve V 12 

I know very well thank you very much gms corvette 350 in c4 from 1985 to 1996 made 230 to 330hp net. And in the 90s and b body n f body making 245 to 285 hp. Let's look this way the 70s low compression lt1 made 330 ho gross and 255 net hp. So a 350 hp crate should make atleast 250 hp net. Oh scca b production wellfactory race team against amateur private teams better win lol.

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

Group 44 and Huffaker engineering were both SCCA amateur teams given cars and some parts by Jaguar.  Quaker state provided a little stipend and free oil. Huffaker did that part on his own wallet.   They both were trying for the IMSA funding. 
    I'll remind you that both teams had less than 6 months to develop the cars which had never been raced. Unlike Chevy's who the factory sponsors  racing in every venue. And since 1955. 
   At the run offs the Jaguars  had 450 horsepower for Group 44 and Huffaker had 470 horsepower  ( they used SU carbs instead of Strombergs. ) 

 Doubt me?      Look at Jaguars financial picture during that period.  A good year for them was the sale of 10,000 cars ( sedans and sports cars) 

   Profit really depended on the dollar pound exchange rate since 50% of Jaguars production came to AMERICA.  That's 5,000 cars. What's that 1 days production for GM?  

A large amount of corvette c3 race cars that raced in that area were built from cars found in the junkyard. The red corvette that raced at Le Mans 1972 was a 68 they got in a junkyard.  Gm definitely wasn't funding scca amateur racing then. Maybe some engineers would help after hours. And it's not like Jaguar wasn't part of a huge company it had been part of bmw/leyland since 1966.

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

How many Corvettes had been raced since SCCA started?
     Don't forget to count me because I got my competition license in a Corvette. 
    To that number be sure to add the Z28's  in TransAm  

Now let's count Jaguars.   No you can add the two 6 cylinders  

  Oh so 2 huh?  No V12's ?  

  As for BLMH?     No, you are simply wrong. BMW  did not own  BMC.  I. Fact BLMH  wanted to shut down Jaguar.  Funding?   Are you kidding?   For a while any profit Jaguar managed to make BLMH took to run the REST of Englands car companies into bankruptcy. 
    That's why BLMH let  JAGUAR go on their own.  THEY didn't see a future for Jaguar 

   For information BLMH stands for British Leland Motor Holding.  Nothing to do with BMW. 

You truly have a dizzying intellect.

In reply to racerfink :

I just need to know if he has beaten a giant or bested a Spaniard

When a guy can punch a few numbers into Summit Racing and get a warrantied, honest 400+ horsepower, air cleaner to oil pan Chevy crate motor; this discussion is (barely) academic.   It always has been and always will be cheaper and easier to go faster with a Chevy motor than a Jaguar motor.  

Why do you think we see plenty of "Chevy swap into xxx" or "Ford swap into xxx" but no "Jaguar swap into xxx" kits.   Simple evolution, and sometimes the simple way is the best way.  

frenchyd said:

Besides the comfort factor.  I keep forgetting most people don't want to challenge themselves. They'd much prefer the easy way, without the need to stretch  their mind.  Learn new things.  Follow the crowd.   
    I understand.   To get the 1,000+ horsepower I'm looking for I have to learn about after market EFM's, Turbo's,  high volume fuel injectors,  how to tune the V12 to use both boost and E85. Make a decision regarding injector timing, ( sequential or batch)  ignition ( delete the distributor and go coil on plug  or use the distributor) 
   Then wire everything together. 
   This is going to be a massive challenge. One I'm looking forward to because at my age (75) new things are a real challenge. 
  I've been fighting that idea for the past 10+ years.  I mean I could comfortably make 600 horsepower maybe even a little more. Without the need to learn everything involved in mega squirt, turbo charging etc. 

     

Other people want to actually get something done so they choose a well traveled path. How many years of life are you planning on getting ? Every single day when someone works on their Chevy swapped Jag they are accomplishing more than you are. Yet you throw rocks at them.

As the lowbrow philosopher Cousin Eddie says, "tis better to have a 160hp Chevy powered Jag on the road today than to sit there and yell at the clouds until you die and never actually get anything accomplished". You said right there in your post that you been planning this 10+ years. For berkeleys sake man, get after it and do something more than pontificate.

Ok so dumb question but I thought a lot of the reliability problems with the 70s and 80s Jags (at least the 6 cylinders) was everything attached to the car and all the electric components running through the rest of the car. So wouldn't a V8 Jag still be fairly maintenace heavy?

Frenchy, do you have any experience with vintage race week in the Bahama's in 1986 and the World famous Sir Stirling Moss?

93EXCivic said:

Ok so dumb question but I thought a lot of the reliability problems with the 70s and 80s Jags (at least the 6 cylinders) was everything attached to the car and all the electric components running through the rest of the car. So wouldn't a V8 Jag still be fairly maintenace heavy?

Probably would. Much of the engineering requires a "different" thinking when you are wrenching on a jag. Not that it doesn't make sense, but many things are just done differently than in most other cars.

And 70-80s jags are really not even modern to their times. They are 60s cars, sold in the 80s. So they still require 60s levels of maintenance. 

All that said, I don't think the real reason behind most engine swaps, jag or otherwise, is "so I can work on the car less".

Also, everyone, I know frenchy is making himself a target here, but let's stay away from a public stoning ceremony. 

The beauty of the world is we are all allowed to have our own ideas and views!

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

93EXCivic said:

Ok so dumb question but I thought a lot of the reliability problems with the 70s and 80s Jags (at least the 6 cylinders) was everything attached to the car and all the electric components running through the rest of the car. So wouldn't a V8 Jag still be fairly maintenace heavy?

Probably would. Much of the engineering requires a "different" thinking when you are wrenching on a jag. Not that it doesn't make sense, but many things are just done differently than in most other cars.

And 70-80s jags are really not even modern to their times. They are 60s cars, sold in the 80s. So they still require 60s levels of maintenance. 

All that said, I don't think the real reason behind most engine swaps, jag or otherwise, is "so I can work on the car less".

Who would run that garbage British electrics with Chevy v8. After all the jag would be the prince of darkness Lucas.

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Also, everyone, I know frenchy is making himself a target here, but let's stay away from a public stoning ceremony. 

The beauty of the world is we are all allowed to have our own ideas and views!

I agree here. Though, he often and purposely spreads incorrect information and he does it such a condescending way to top it off. I enjoy is V12 specific information (which isn't always correct) when he's communicating it without being condescending. But when he starts going off into his rants and stories he cant be stopped nor does he try to stop. It's the same thing over and over in every thread that he finds interest in. It reminds me of this old man that thinks everyone is stupid and his experiences are the only valid things being said. I limit my in-thread interactions with him to 2 or 3 per thread from there I leave it alone. 

I'm sure he's a nice guy overall, I really hope he is.