e36 m3 vs ap1 s2k

I am looking for reccomendations from people who have owned one or both of these cars..

I like the idea of a simple, semi light weight two door front engine rear wheel drive set up.(na miata is just too old and small for me)

the price range for both are right about the same range. I would be looking for the newest m3 I could afford, or an 03 ap1

I like the idea of having more space in the m3, but 9k rpms sounds too good to pass up.

what do you guys think? are e36 m3's as reliable as s2k's? how do they compare performance wise? daily driving? are parts more expensive for the m3?

In reply to smog7:

owned both, s2k will be slightly faster and handle better on the track. The e36 M3 is getting older, but good examples still exist. The M3 will be more livable. Your lifestyle will come to play here. Do you have another vehicle? Do you need a back seat or trunk?

The m3 has a flatter torque curve and will feel more at home at the stoplight gran prix. Neither will beat a new v6 Accord or Camry in a drag race nowadays.

I would rather drive the M3 on the street (I've thought about another). The s2k was more rewarding on the track. My s2k was about .5 sec a lap faster at Blackhawk Farms Raceway with similar mods.

Decide with heart and mind!

My 98 M3 did 60k+ road and 40k all-out racetrack miles on the stock, unmodified engine. I sold it to a guy who has been racing it in BMWCCA club racing... on the unmodified stock engine for a season... so as far as reliable- no issues if properly maintained.

As far as rewarding - stock for stock the S2000 will be a no-brainer... its a momentum car witha 9k RPM redline and the slickest shifting transmission in the business. That said - the E36 BMW is a brilliant track car. It has more feel than almost anything this side of a Boxster S (which you should also add to your list). If you start modding, the BMW has more speed potential if you stay N/A and a more robust driveline for withstanding more power. It also has a big race history so finding a setup that works and someone who has successfully raced one to discuss it with is easy.

I have owned a fleet of E30 and E36 BMWs and they have nailed the street/track compromise - I've driven a few S2000s and I really want one badly. If there is no compromise situation (its only going to be a track car) then S2000 all the way. Its lighter.

To my thinking this decision comes down to luggage space and acceptance. M3 can fit 4 race tires, tools and a duffel bag inside, S2000 needs a HF trailer. M3 can be driven at just about any track event, S2000 needs an additional hardtop and rollbar and even then some clubs won't accept a vert. The M3 can carry 3 idiot friends for gas between run sessions, S2000 is limited to one.

Either way - you win.

Is it true the early S2Ks have weak tranny synchros? Any other issues?

I may have to add one of these to the short list for next year....

LA LA LA (Fingers in ears)

..I can't hear any of you...

The M3 and S2000 are two of the best drivers cars of the last 20 years - you're not going to go wrong with either one of them.

The M3 is a fantastic daily driver because of its flexibility. It has terrific torque for driving around town, a nice-sized trunk with folding rear seats, room for passengers... and as soon as the roads get twisty or you want to pass someone, the car just responds. Bone stock, the car is extremely capable autocrossing or on track.

The S2000 is a pure drivers car and just begs to be revved. The steering feels right, the shifter is perfect, the pedal placement is perfect, the chassis balance is perfect, and there are no distracting or superfluous luxury features. Behind the wheel, it's as if Honda took what everyone wanted more of from their Miatas and made the S2000. Even stock, the car is an almost unbeatable autocrosser and is equally at home on track.

The S2000 is newer and more focused, so that was my preferred choice. But I have a family and needed some utility from my car, so I bought the M3. Assuming the car you buy has been taken care of, you're getting a fantastic driving machine no matter which you choose.

What everyone else says +10.

I see many S2ks at the autocross and at track events. They go well, but as a lifelong motorcyclist I'd rather have a fantastic sounding inline 6 that revs to 7K (w/ Conforti software) and a bike that revs to 14k. Though mainly I ride a single that revs to 7.5k...

My '98 e36 M3 is the best handling car I've ever owned. Stock it was the perfect enthusiast street car, and with $5000 in suspension and bolt-ons it's the best streetable trackday car I can imagine.

Another consideration is what your daily driving routine is like. If you have a long highway slog, the M3 wins hands down. If your commute to work includes the Tail of the Dragon, the S2K may be a better choice.

My M3 has over 130K on it now, and mechanically is as stout and strong as the day it was new. (although my original clutch is getting ready for a replacement) E36 interiors tend to fall apart a bit with age. (door panels becoming unglued, headliner falling) These are easy fixes though, and as long as you stay on top of maintenance, the M3 should stay nice for a long long time. I'm sure the S2K has reliable mechanicals as it is a Honda after all.

They are both great, but offer very different driving experiences. The S2K is like drinking a case of Mountain Dew. It's all sound and fury, and exhilarating near the redline. Below 4K it is a torque-less dog, and not much fun. The M3 has lots of torque, and a great engine note, but it doesn't have the frantic nature of the Honda.

Need space and like torque--- M3 Use as a second car, or sunny day vert---- S2K

just my .02

nderwater wrote: Behind the wheel, it's as if Honda took what everyone wanted more of from their Miatas and made the S2000.

That's funny, because our customers always seem to ask for more torque

I've had limited experience with both and exclusively on the street. But based on that, I'd go with the BMW. The S2000's performance didn't seem accessible on the street due to the nature of the engine. My reaction to the BMW was to tell a friend to sell every car he owned and just get an M3 to replace them all. I'd love to have the chance to work them both hard on the track and I don't doubt it the Honda would be more rewarding than the sedan in that arena.

I'm currently looking at E46 M3s for a high-performance street car. Kinda sums it up I suppose.

the answer is RX-8. better autoXer than the M3, better DD than the S2k. and newer and less expensive than either.

If you can stomach the RX8s looks. Serious, I consider that car to have one of the worst ratio of coherent design to incoherent. Nothing flows

certainly, as with any car. i dunno how the OP feels about the looks, but i know it slots very neatly into that "i need a car that is both a good DD and a good racer" area. it's excellent at both. i was down to an S2k or an RX8, and chose the latter b/c i wanted a better DD.

but i love the way mine looks. i like that it sometimes surprises you when viewed from a particular angle; nothing generic about it, IMO. and in any case, it handles sublimely no matter how it looks. ;)

Agreed, the RX-8 is a great drive, regardless of if you like it's styling or not. After spending some time with an RX-8 recently I pretty much fell for it. One thing stops the love though.......

I average about 24-25mpg in the M3 under very enthusiastic use. (frequent redline runs, foot hits the floor nearly every day)

I put about 500 miles on that RX-8 driving under all kinds of circumstances. I averaged under 15 mpg. (premium fuel) ouch!

Joe Gearin wrote: Agreed, the RX-8 is a great drive, regardless of if you like it's styling or not. After spending some time with an RX-8 recently I pretty much fell for it. One thing stops the love though....... I average about 24-25mpg in the M3 under very enthusiastic use. (frequent redline runs, foot hits the floor nearly every day) I put about 500 miles on that RX-8 driving under all kinds of circumstances. I averaged under 15 mpg. (premium fuel) ouch!

Bah, i own one and in mixed driving get 20 mpg, granted the 8 never has a chance of getting any where near either the m3 or s2k. But it kinda splits the difference between the two, the motor is more frantic (and torque less) like the s2k but easier to live with every day i.e. 4 seats 4 doors a trunk and a roof.

I agree with pretty much everything said in this thread...right up until the RX8 showed up.

Owned an S2K for a year. Great car, very dialed in from the factory, and a very unique driving experience. My next fun car will be an E36 M3. My best friend had one and it's a great car - as others have said, it's pretty much everything you'd want in a car coupled with everything you need. The S2K does half that, but does it very well too.

The main difference I found after driving the rx8 & ap1 s2k is that the 8 is very easy to control over it's limits, and the s2k was rather tough/twitchy (I hear honda revised the rear suspension geometry & tire width on the 2nd generation?)

The honda felt like a proper sports car, less roll, quicker steering, and slightly more responsive overall...

Mind if I throw the MINI S in the mix as well? I'm (finally) getting serious about the second car and need four seats so am really interested in the E36M3 or MINI S.

ehh don't really like the looks of rx8s..

I own a st185 celica all trac at the moment...

I'm not sure if I will keep it along with another car, or sell it and have only one car..

I agree with the crowd. I would say it depends on the use of the vehicle. I currently have 3 RX-7s so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I have driven each, all three if you count the RX-8. If it is a DD I would have tough time deciding between the M3 and RX-8. The S2000 was great to drive when you were out for a drive. Around town it was a pain in the butt. Kinda like my 1st gen RX-7 with the 9lb flywheel high strung motor.

The RX-8 interior and ride truly feels more like a sports car to me than the M3. The heavier M3 has a more substantial feel to compared to the light on its feet RX-8. The E36 M3's (like most used BMWs) I have experienced had interior problems which cheapens the feel. Also if the suspension on the M3 hasn't been gone through it will probably need to be and you will feel it on the test drive. The RX-8s I have driven have all been under 50k so that has bearing on my opinion.

The M3 motor pulls hard and has plenty of tq for around town driving. The RX-8 obviously has less torque but is find for driving around. Both have stock 1/4 mile times in the mid 14s although the M3 is much easier to get power out of. Despite what some people say (nothing personal Joe) I doubt that many people will see 25 mpg average out M3. Fueleconomy.gov rates a 98 M3 at 20 combined and a 2005 RX-8 at 18 combined. A 2003 S2000 is rated at 20 combined for comparison.

My advice would be to drive each one hard and decide which one you like best.

Greg Voth wrote: Despite what some people say (nothing personal Joe) I doubt that many people will see 25 mpg average out M3.

I got 20/27 consistently and my highway is a solid 80-90mph. No doubt that around town you can make it as low as you like but... you will have to work hard to make it suck.

hahaha joke right? S2K alllllllllllllll day

It's one of the few convertibles that still looks great with the top up.

I don't doubt that people can beat the ratings I was just trying to put up some unbiased information on expected fuel economy.

Sure I have squeeked out 27mpg out of my RX-7 on flat highway at 55-60mph but traveling at my normal 75-85mph it drops down to about 23mpg. Most people when recording their mileage try to get better mileage. I also don't trust the trip computers for more than a rough estimate +/- 3mpg.

Greg Voth wrote: I don't doubt that people can beat the ratings I was just trying to put up some unbiased information on expected fuel economy. Sure I have squeeked out 27mpg out of my RX-7 on flat highway at 55-60mph but traveling at my normal 75-85mph it drops down to about 23mpg. Most people when recording their mileage try to get better mileage. I also don't trust the trip computers for more than a rough estimate +/- 3mpg.

I drive like an asshat, M3s are just good on gas

I've averaged 25.6mpg over the past 14300 miles.... (actual, measured. Not by the computer)

I do want an S2K someday though, but it's an entirely different car than my (sedan) M3.