E90 328i....should I do iT?

I recently bought a Miata and I currently have an LR3 but a coworker of mine presents something I almost can't resist so I'd like to hear some third party convincing. In a few months she plans on getting rid of her 2011 E90 328i. She custom ordered it back when she owned it (1 owner vehicle) and it's manual and RWD. I don't think it's the M Sport package or anything like that. I ran the VIN and it's accident free and she's had it dealer maintained and it currently only has 54000 miles. She also has always garaged it (according to what she says). Considering she's an old lady and a doctor, I'd trust her. How much should I be offering for this thing? Should I wait until she tries to trade it into the dealer?

If I do end up getting this thing, it appears to be at the exact mileage where I'd need to do the typical maintenance which appears to be spark plugs, coils, and since she hasn't done the VANOS bolt recall I'd probably do that plus the solenoids and the valve cover (or valve cover gasket). Anything else I'm missing here?

Finally, let's talk mods. I want to make this an OEM+ style daily driver. I notice that the M3 suspension mostly bolts on so I might just go with that. Are there any improved rubber/"softer" poly bushings for the differential/rear subframe? How about engine/trans mounts? I hear these are weaknesses on this car and at this age/mileage, it may be time for a refresh anyway.

At 54k you're probably 20k away from plugs and coils. Oil filter housing gasket and oil cooler gasket are possibly on their way out as well. People say electric water pump at 80-100k. The OE pump on my 2007 525xi went 140k, and the OE pump on my 2010 328i is still pumping at 100k.

offer her "$1000 more than the dealer will give you in trade, and I'll meet you at the dealer to hand you the cash." I'd be willing to bet the dealer will offer somewhere around $6k.

As long as you go in realizing it is a 12 year old car & may have some issues I think you will be happy with it.  Service records will be the big thing, n52's can be fairly trouble free if well maintained.

It sounds like you have a good grasp of the common failure items, oil leaks will be the big thing to look for.  I don't know if I would bother doing a water pump as preventative maintenance, they have a pretty good failsafe mode & the newer ones do not fail as often.  Replacing the vanos bolts the first time the valve cover is off would be a good idea, you should be able to get away with just gaskets at that mileage but a new cover comes with a new pcv system.  I would not be surprised if the rear shocks are done, e9x cars tend to be hard on them.

For mods, a good set of shocks & struts with lowering springs a set of m3 front control arms for extra caster & rear subframe bushing inserts makes a good package.  The front has limited camber adjustment so camber plates would be good as well.  I have used ground control street camber plates on a few cars & have been happy with the results.

Engine mod wise the 335i with its easily boosted n54/55 overshadowed the n52 so option are more limited.  A 3 stage intake, MILVs & A set of headers should get you close to 300hp though.

I love the N52 in every car I've driven that has it.  There's not much to dislike about this, though the base seats aren't as comfortable as the sport seats.  But E90 interiors are pretty much plug and play, and you could source them if you really wanted.

Older BMWs require care and feeding.  But for me they are worth it . . . and parts and technical know how are plentiful.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

offer her "$1000 more than the dealer will give you in trade, and I'll meet you at the dealer to hand you the cash." I'd be willing to bet the dealer will offer somewhere around $6k.

Be SURE that she understands what you are willing to spend.

I like B5 chassis VWAG cars. Had two customers with an A4 manual trans 1.8t quattro. I had personally been maintaining it for about 150k miles, maintaining it for the original owner and the person she sold it to. It was well taken care of and in great shape.  The chassis on these don't rust but the rear shock mount/control arm mounts do, and I had replaced them at a cost of $900ea plus labor and whileyou'reintheres.  That sort of thing.

Dealership offered something crazy low like $1500, she took it because "I didn't think it was worth that much".  Clean A4qs are unicorns and I'd have paid $6k for it.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Oh for sure, if she knows it's worth $10k and the dealer offers $6k, be sure she knows you're good up to $9k or whatever your limit is.

In reply to RyanGreener (Forum Supporter) :

please post details and pix of you get this car. I'd really like my E92 better if it was an E90. If you'd prefer a coupe, maybe we could work something out.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to RyanGreener (Forum Supporter) :

please post details and pix of you get this car. I'd really like my E92 better if it was an E90. If you'd prefer a coupe, maybe we could work something out.

Like I said in the original post, I've got the majority of the details except I haven't test driven it yet. This thing is absolutely mint (and rust free!). Carfax just confirmed what she told me about it being dealer maintained and accident free. It's a light blue color (no idea what BMW calls it) and RWD/manual, custom ordered from back then. A 2 door coupe does sound appealing though....

$1000 more than what the dealer offers might not be fair to her.  Depending on the tax laws in your state, here in Colorado the trade value goes against the tax value of the new car.  To make the math easy, if the dealer offers me $10,000, I get that, plus I get to take $10,000 off the value of the new car, saving at least $1000 more.  Plus the dealer will be offering her wholesale vs retail, etc, etc. 

In reply to docwyte :

That is an interesting way to do it.  In a lot of other states you pay taxes on the full price of the new car, so what the dealerships would do to sweeten a deal would be to give you like $500 for a $5500 car and then take $5000 off the price of the new car.  Maybe $4000   You pay lower taxes that way.

Which is why they don't like it when you don't have a trade.  They get to expecting a trade in to be able to resell or auction and price cars accordingly.

As the owner of a 2011 128i 6spd, the absolute answer to your question is HELL YES you want this car.  End of story.

This is a desirable car to an enthusiast for the obvious reasons... if you told me it was a no-sunroof car I might swoon.  

I agree the dealer would like to give $6500 in trade if they can get away with it.  But they know it is special and they will want the car- probably willing to give more if they have to.

If I were in the OP's shoes I would get some research to support a reasonable private-party value and make that my offer - and I think it would be well-bought at that price.  Hope that the seller prefers negotiations for a new car with cash in hand.

Sometimes people have emotional attachments and want their car to "go to a good home", if so that can work in your favor too.

bludroptop said:

This is a desirable car to an enthusiast for the obvious reasons... if you told me it was a no-sunroof car I might swoon.  

I agree the dealer would like to give $6500 in trade if they can get away with it.  But they know it is special and they will want the car- probably willing to give more if they have to.

If I were in the OP's shoes I would get some research to support a reasonable private-party value and make that my offer - and I think it would be well-bought at that price.  Hope that the seller prefers negotiations for a new car with cash in hand.

Sometimes people have emotional attachments and want their car to "go to a good home", if so that can work in your favor too.

 

 

She is an almost retired doctor who isn't seemingly concerned with money so I think the angle of the car going to a good home works here. Otherwise I don't see why she'd even waste time talking to me about selling it to me.

As the owner of a 2008 128i 6-speed: They're ok, but really nothing to write home about. The singular best thing about it is the engine note with the right exhaust mods. If you regularly need the rear seats, it's probably about as much sportier than an Accord V6 6-speed as it is needier. If you don't, an OEM+ style Miata or FRS/BRZ would be much more fun and engaging as a daily driver. I accept and embrace that I'm firmly in the minority opinion on this.

Driven5 said:

As the owner of a 2008 128i 6-speed: They're ok, but really nothing to write home about. The singular best thing about it is the engine note with the right exhaust mods. If you regularly need the rear seats, it's probably about as much sportier than an Accord V6 6-speed as it is needier. If you don't, an OEM+ style Miata or FRS/BRZ would be much more fun and engaging as a daily driver. I accept and embrace that I'm firmly in the minority opinion on this.

Sure, your opinion is firmly in the minority.  That doesn't make it wrong.  There are people who don't like the Miata (gasp) and people who don't care for the Frisbee twins (me).  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I do fully agree with you on the Accord V6 6spd coupe.  I've been singing the praises from the highest mountain top for a long time.  It's SO good and would be far more "practical" than the 1 series.  However, from my seat of the pants, the Honda simply can't match the 128i.

Driven5 said:

As the owner of a 2008 128i 6-speed: They're ok, but really nothing to write home about. The singular best thing about it is the engine note with the right exhaust mods. If you regularly need the rear seats, it's probably about as much sportier than an Accord V6 6-speed as it is needier. If you don't, an OEM+ style Miata or FRS/BRZ would be much more fun and engaging as a daily driver. I accept and embrace that I'm firmly in the minority opinion on this.

Ah yes, I remember seeing you posting about your experience with the E90 (not sure the code for the 128i). I mean, I actually recently acquired an NB Miata that is STR prepped for autocross so I can definitely do direct comparisons. I've just always heard about E90s being the last of the "ultimate driving machine" in terms of feel/engine.

Go drive it - you'll know if it's something you want pretty quickly.

That said, I'm in the pro camp. My 128i (it's an E82 chassis, BTW) is an M-Sport 6spd, into which I've put an M3/1M suspension with Koni yellows and Eibachs. Otherwise it's stock. It's a great all-purpose (well, most-purpose) daily that is also quite entertaining on back roads and eats highway miles pretty effectively. I do think you'll want to swap in sport seats - they are orders of magnitude better than the stock ones - but other than that, it's a very capable platform. Upgrade or refresh the suspension as you see fit and go from there.

I cannot overstate the importance of having records on the car. Not only does it give you peace of mind and knowledge of what's been done, but it also increases the value to any enthusiast you may sell to down the road. You should be prepared to spend money on the car, however. They can and will mistreat you badly if neglected.

02Pilot said:

Go drive it - you'll know if it's something you want pretty quickly.

That said, I'm in the pro camp. My 128i (it's an E82 chassis, BTW) is an M-Sport 6spd, into which I've put an M3/1M suspension with Koni yellows and Eibachs. Otherwise it's stock. It's a great all-purpose (well, most-purpose) daily that is also quite entertaining on back roads and eats highway miles pretty effectively. I do think you'll want to swap in sport seats - they are orders of magnitude better than the stock ones - but other than that, it's a very capable platform. Upgrade or refresh the suspension as you see fit and go from there.

I cannot overstate the importance of having records on the car. Not only does it give you peace of mind and knowledge of what's been done, but it also increases the value to any enthusiast you may sell to down the road. You should be prepared to spend money on the car, however. They can and will mistreat you badly if neglected.

Yeah, thankfully the lady (and the carfax) have agreed with each other that it was dealer maintained. It's got low mileage and I plan on keeping every receipt/maintenance records from there on out if I own it. I do need to test drive it one of these days though.

02Pilot said:

That said, I'm in the pro camp. My 128i (it's an E82 chassis, BTW) is an M-Sport 6spd, into which I've put an M3/1M suspension with Koni yellows and Eibachs. Otherwise it's stock. It's a great all-purpose (well, most-purpose) daily that is also quite entertaining on back roads and eats highway miles pretty effectively.

Sorry for the thread jack, but can you expand on the suspension mods?  Did you get used 1M stuff?  I am using mine for HPDE and there is zero camber adjustability from the factory set up.  Debating how far down the rabbit hole I want to go.  Just get a set of Turner camber plates and call it a day or go hog wild and throw a ton of suspension E36 M3 at it.  From what I've seen, the M stuff is big $$

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

Also curious.  I am at a similar crossroads with mine, and I'm not sure if the investment is going to get me where I want to go.  

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

The rear has camber adjustability, so presumably you're just talking about the front?

If you knock off/out (depending on if the integrated or pressed in style) the alignment pin on the upper mounts, the strut towers are slotted and can give as much ~0.5* negative or so, and a range of adjustment to even the two sides out. If you are ok with a .25" lift on the front, the Dinan fixed camber plates will move that adjustment range another 0.7* negative. The M3 control arms will give another 0.5* (0.7*?) degree negative, while improving steering response and camber stability during cornering loads. The M3 arms add some road feel (NVH) through the chassis, but not in a bad way IMHO.

We have a 2010 128i M-sport that the PO did a bunch of suspension work to along those lines. He installed a buck of e9x M3 parts, including bushings, which are stiffer than stock, lower camber links and control arms. BMW did the same (M3 control arms) on the 1M. We also have Ground Control camber plates, TC Klein coilovers and a bunch of other fun go-fast parts. It really is a neat car!

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

02Pilot said:

That said, I'm in the pro camp. My 128i (it's an E82 chassis, BTW) is an M-Sport 6spd, into which I've put an M3/1M suspension with Koni yellows and Eibachs. Otherwise it's stock. It's a great all-purpose (well, most-purpose) daily that is also quite entertaining on back roads and eats highway miles pretty effectively.

Sorry for the thread jack, but can you expand on the suspension mods?  Did you get used 1M stuff?  I am using mine for HPDE and there is zero camber adjustability from the factory set up.  Debating how far down the rabbit hole I want to go.  Just get a set of Turner camber plates and call it a day or go hog wild and throw a ton of suspension E36 M3 at it.  From what I've seen, the M stuff is big $$

I used this kit from FCP Euro for the control arms. I also added Whiteline poly inserts into the rear subframe bushings, which I consider an absolute necessity for any of these cars, even without any other suspension work, just to get rid of the wandering rear end feeling. Mine is not a track car, so I'm only running about 0.8deg neg camber in the front, but it's fine for the street. Some of the upgraded control arms have ball joints instead of bushings, so there's a lot of feel added (and not too much NVH). With the Konis and Eibachs, it's all I'd want for the street (I had Bilsteins first, but they rusted a lot, and were pretty harsh in any case).

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

As the owner of a 2011 128i 6spd, the absolute answer to your question is HELL YES you want this car.  End of story.

Thanks!  I saw and initially bought the Dinan fixed plates.  However, to install them you apparently have to drill out the holes in the strut tower.  I don't want to do something that can't be reversed later.  I may get the Turner ones, which are much more expensive but are bolt on and offer more camber.  I don't need to go nuts, but a few degrees would be nice for track day use.  I just wasn't sure what else to do after that.  Thanks for the ideas!