F1 2014

Great race! Great result!

It's fun to have the first five cars covered by less the two seconds within a couple of laps of the checkered flag.

NBCSports is re-broadcasting the race at 7PM(est); its' worth a look-see for the first or even second time.

I haven't seen many F1 races with actual racing going on. Today's Canada GP was great, except that final shunt with Massa. Would have enjoyed seeing Perez and Massa finish in one piece. Nice to see the less golden teams running well. Red Bull has definitely closed the gap to Mercedes, but there's still work to be done. Hope the rest of the season continues on this way.

Red bull appeared to be well back untill whatever mechanical issue raised its head for the Mercedes cars.

MGU-K failure, apparently. The silver arrows basically lost about 160 hp and started working the rear brakes harder as a result of the loss of regen. That's what got Hamilton.

This has been a hell of a season for racing, even if it wasn't always for first place. Race cars with a bit more engine than chassis are a lot more fun to watch.

Perez gets dinged with a five-place grid penalty for the next race. It takes just six seconds to show why he deserves it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUEbC1bf2sc

Kudos to Button for stealthin' his way to fourth.

Great race. The drive by Rosberg was pretty good. I finally felt some respect for his F1 skills relative to others in F1. I am surprised they are giving Perez a penalty for changing lines. I thought that is what they all do! Rosberg changed lines at the start Hamilton did to. I guess with contact they felt they must blame someone.

If Hamilton wins this championship from Rosberg it will be with luck coming to his side instead of just skill.

In reply to oldsaw:

Watching that video just solidified my thought that Perez was justified yo show his nose to the car ahead and take his line. The overtaking car was obviously on full dive bomb attack and didn't adjust to avoid the leading car.

In reply to Advan046:

We'll have to agree to disagree...

Perez' initial line was directly behind Vettel on the right side of the track, the normal line entering T1. With his brakes already gone and a much faster car coming up behind him, he jinked to the left. That was just stoopid.

Maybe Massa could have waited to pass later in the lap but he was faster than both Perez and Vettel and was looking at a possible podium position.

Rosberg already had the inside line at the start because he was on pole. Hamilton never got so far ahead to prevent Rosberg from putting his nose alongside. Hamilton wanted to move left to apex the first corner but couldn't - there was no room. That was good, clean, hard racing and even Lewis didn't beotch about it.

You can't change your line into another car. Massa had no chance to avoid a collision, he already had his front wheel beside Perez's rear. And as oldsaw said, the direction of the change was completely unexpected. Given the potentially massive consequences to that, I think Perez got off pretty easy. Shame, because he drove a hell of a race.

I like the fact that Vettel uses the term "stuck behind" any time there's a car in front of him.

In reply to oldsaw:

Hey it is all in the moment judgment and my view was Perez was trying to show the nose to the car ahead rather than blocking.

But if Perez said to the officials that he was defending then yeah the penalty was due.

And yes I like Vettel's terminology too!

Advan046 wrote: Hey it is all in the moment judgment and my view was Perez was trying to show the nose to the car ahead rather than blocking.

I'd agree with you except for the fact that his brakes were gone and had no chance of faking or out-braking Vettel. And there's that little bit about being two car lengths behind the RedBull and only one ahead of the Williams.

I think there would have still be a accident between Massa and Perez regardless of the juke over. Nobody had any brakes left or tire. I think Vettel is super lucky, but think if he would have passed Hulk earlier on that he would have won the race.

codrus wrote:

Hal wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: The amazing thing about the race was that, while Hammy was simply running away from everyone, he was also using less fuel.

That surprised me also since according to the numbers they were showing it was significantly less.

It was about 5% less. IIRC, towards the end of the race (5 laps left or so) he was at 88% used while the other cars were at 92-93%. With Hamilton's pace advantage he could run the car in fuel saving mode most of the time, rather than need to use fuel to try to pass or defend against passes. Nico spent a lot of the race trying to get back to 2nd place, so he didn't have that option.

Resurrecting this - I noticed in Canada that Hamilton was still using less fuel than Nico, even though this time it was Hammy trying to run down his teammate. Hamilton's got something figured out, he can eke out faster pace during the race than Nico can even though qualifying shows them to have the same ultimate lap time. He's going to regret those two DNFs (which weren't his fault) at the end of the season, though.

I think Nico drove a hell of a race this weekend. Red Bull says they're 60 hp down on Mercedes, Mercedes said they lost 160 hp from the MGU-K failure. So that means that Nico was 100 hp down on the Red Bulls for half the race! It was great watching him adapt to his car's changed abilities and stay in front for as long as he did.

I raced at HPR in Colorado a few years ago with Lemons. We had total brake failure on Saturday afternoon. We fixed the brakes and went back out on track. Because we only had a set of used pads to finish the race with, nobody used the brakes unless aboslutely necessary.

Because we never used teh brakes, we adapted to carrying speed and momentum through corners and being smoother with turn in. We ended up using less gas AND the entire team set faster laps than they previously had!

What I am getting at is this: It is possible that this problem with the mercedes cars may have helped Rosberg. I would not be surprised if he is faster (than he was) for the remainder of the season. An issue like that can show you a lot about how lap times are made.

Another thought: Is it possible this failure was due to the new "qualifying mode" that was on the Mercedes powered cars?

Also, this made me wonder if the fuel flow and usage rates are watched in qualifying? I thought the wording stated it was monitored during the race (does qualifying fall under that?).

Finally, I thought the cars were not allowed to be messed with during and after qualifying (parc-ferme). In other words, can you change your engine mapping between quali and race? I know they can DURING the race, I just didn't know if you could specifically for quali.

Rob R.

No talk of Nico going off course after overcooking the turn then flooring it so he didn't get passed by Hammy? He set his fastest sector time up until that point by doing that and didn't hand the place to hammy (Not losing a place he should have, rather than making a place) but didn't get a penalty? It wouldn't have mattered as Hammy went out, but no way he shouldn’t have got away with that.

wvumtnbkr wrote: What I am getting at is this: It is possible that this problem with the mercedes cars may have helped Rosberg. I would not be surprised if he is faster (than he was) for the remainder of the season. An issue like that can show you a lot about how lap times are made.

No offence to your skill, but we're talking about one of the top half dozen drivers in the world. He was most definitely slower with the brake issues that before. HE was also lucky that Hammy went out first in that the team could warn him and he could react. It could just as easily been Nico out first and HAmmy could have limped to the end.

I agree, that was a judgement call on the part of the steward. He did indeed get an advantage, as it moved him out of DRS range for a few laps. In the end, it made no difference. But it certainly could have. Tough call for the steward.

I loved watching Nico tear up the track in the first couple of sectors without brakes, pulling away from Perez by about a second. He'd then lose it all in the last bit and Perez would be right back on his tail again. The fact that he was managing the same lap times as Perez in the (supposedly) healthy Force India with no rear brakes and a 160 hp deficit was fantastic.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: No talk of Nico going off course after overcooking the turn then flooring it so he didn't get passed by Hammy? He set his fastest sector time up until that point by doing that and didn't hand the place to hammy (Not losing a place he should have, rather than making a place) but didn't get a penalty? It wouldn't have mattered as Hammy went out, but no way he shouldn’t have got away with that.

The NBC announce crew noted that prior to Rosberg's error another driver (Kyviat?) had committed the same mistake and received NO penalty. I'd guess the race stewards were avoiding embarrassment by applying a double standard if they hit Rosberg with a foul.

Not like they haven't done similar things before, though...

oldsaw wrote: The NBC announce crew noted that prior to Rosberg's error another driver (Kyviat?) had committed the same mistake and received NO penalty. I'd guess the race stewards were avoiding embarrassment by applying a double standard if they hit Rosberg with a foul. Not like they haven't done similar things before, though...

Kvyat's cutting was a very different scenario -- Kimi went to pass him on the inside, but then Kimi ended up braking earlier than Kvyat, hesitated a bit about whether to make the pass or slot in behind him, and then went for the pass. You could argue that Kvyat could (and probably should) still have committed to the corner, but you can't say that Kvyat would have blown the corner if Kimi hadn't been all up on his inside driving a bit wonky. He would have kept the position either way, and in his defense, he slowed down through the run-off area so that Kimi ended up about the same distance behind him.

Rosberg, on the other hand, would have blown that chicane whether or not Hamilton was there, because Hamilton was still on the racing line a half second behind him. He blew that all on his lonesome and then decided to turn it to his advantage.

trigun7469 wrote: I think there would have still be a accident between Massa and Perez regardless of the juke over. Nobody had any brakes left or tire. I think Vettel is super lucky, but think if he would have passed Hulk earlier on that he would have won the race.

I didn't hear anyone mention that the Williams' had any problems with their brakes … Massa's tires were ~10 laps fresher than Perez's … I'm thinking he could have made the pass stick

Adrian_Thompson wrote: No talk of Nico going off course after overcooking the turn then flooring it so he didn't get passed by Hammy? He set his fastest sector time up until that point by doing that and didn't hand the place to hammy (Not losing a place he should have, rather than making a place) but didn't get a penalty? It wouldn't have mattered as Hammy went out, but no way he shouldn’t have got away with that.

wvumtnbkr wrote: What I am getting at is this: It is possible that this problem with the mercedes cars may have helped Rosberg. I would not be surprised if he is faster (than he was) for the remainder of the season. An issue like that can show you a lot about how lap times are made.

No offence to your skill, but we're talking about one of the top half dozen drivers in the world. He was most definitely slower with the brake issues that before. HE was also lucky that Hammy went out first in that the team could warn him and he could react. It could just as easily been Nico out first and HAmmy could have limped to the end.

I think you missed my point. I was trying to say that sometimes having a hardship with the car can teach you something that you didn't know before. In other words, it might make him faster in the next race, not this race.

I realize that these guys are the best in the world. However, that doesn't mean they can't improve.

Rob R.

All I have to say is look at all the room to the left of Massa that Perez wasn't occupying.

Guy in back has to make the pass. Guy in front dosnt have to take the same line into the corner as vettle.

Rusnak_322 wrote: All I have to say is look at all the room to the left of Massa that Perez wasn't occupying. Guy in back has to make the pass. Guy in front dosnt have to take the same line into the corner as vettle.

This. At worst I'd call it a racing incident. I don't understand how Perez is taking the blame for this one though.

Rusnak_322 wrote: All I have to say is look at all the room to the left of Massa that Perez wasn't occupying. Guy in back has to make the pass. Guy in front dosnt have to take the same line into the corner as vettle.

but he was taking the same line as Vettle … until he realized that Massa wasn't going to just follow him this lap … if he had moved left earlier then he'd have been fine … he waited too late … ergo, his fault

timing is everything

steronz wrote:

Rusnak_322 wrote: All I have to say is look at all the room to the left of Massa that Perez wasn't occupying. Guy in back has to make the pass. Guy in front dosnt have to take the same line into the corner as vettle.

This. At worst I'd call it a racing incident. I don't understand how Perez is taking the blame for this one though.

Yeah on this one, worst case for Perez is that this is a racing incident. In my view Massa had no business trying to pass Perez with so little room. I find it interesting that so many people think the leading car is supposed to avoid the trailing and passing car. Perez moved over maybe half a car width from following Vettel line and that is wrong? This will be another point of disagreement forever I suppose. I just thought the rule was the trailing and passing car was responsible.

In my book Massa would have received a warning not a penalty just a warning. Perez no negative action.