I'm looking at a low mile (18,000) 2014 focus with the the six speed dual clutch auto trans. But now I'm reading about lots of issues people are having with it shuddering badly or not engaging a gear. Is this a real issue? It's certified pre owned, so has a drivetrain warranty out to 100,000 miles, but some people are reporting ford doesn't recognize the issue.
Any ideas?
Absolutely a real issue. The shifting is terrible...like BMW's first SMG terrible. My understanding was that Ford had an ECU reflash or two out that was supposed to fix it, but in reality it did almost nothing. I'd stay away
In reply to calteg:
Oh wow thanks. Is it a problem the develops? Or something that it does all along?
Transmission warranty to 100k, TCM to 150k per the paperwork the local ford dealership showed me last month. How do I know this, you ask? Our TCM crapped out a 2nd time, just outside of warranty at 153k. There was also a recall for a reflash we had not taken care of so that is on me. The TCM seems to fail without warning.
Anyways we had our TCM originally replaced around 70k ish miles under warranty. I always thought the car mostly drove fine, my wife always complained it was a piece of crap. The driving behavior she complained about, never seemed to happen when I drove it. Its been a great car except for the transmission, I will say that.
A year or two ago I gave up trying to defend the DCT, I began to think of it like this. The trans/tcm is too smart for its own good.
With a standard auto, you can learn how it reacts to throttle input, and you can use your right foot to get the car to do what you want, when you want it.
The Ford DCT, they say it takes 1000 miles to adapt to your driving style. Like its trying to do the thinking for you. In the end its just not very good at thinking for me or trying to anticipate what I want it to do. In standard mode it errs on the side of upshifting super early for fuel economy and is a dog. Its a little more reactive in sport mode. I have to say sport mode is quite good when hustling through some twisty, hilly terrain. Seems to downshift right when you want it to.
Honestly prefer the standard auto in my Mazda5 to the Ford DCT.
I realize that he has written things for jalopnik before and we apparently hate that, but Steve Lehto did a bit on those a while ago:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/LdrnRrNMGLE
I seem to recall that the way the story ends is that Ford has come up with a few different things but there isn't any confirmed fix as of yet.
'14 and later are supposed to have a revised version.
I drove a '16 Focus and it was very smooth.
Not every transmission is bad. I had an '11 Fiesta with over 45k miles and now a '13 approaching 45k miles. No problems with either.
The main problem with the earlier units were the clutches and engagement, cause by oil on the clutch from a leaky main shaft seal. After several tries, Ford says it is fixed.
Seems the earlier versions did not like slow/easy driving.
Get on it hard and it works OK.
Maybe that is why I have not had problems.
Btw: My next car will have a manual 6 spd.
As far as I know the major transmission problems were limited to the '12-13s. '14-up should be fine, and since you have a 100k warranty, you can always drag it back to the dealer if something starts acting weird. I've got a decidedly non-car guy friend with about 130k on his '14 and he thinks it's the greatest car ever made. You will probably be fine.
The struggle is real! Fight the power!! Or at least the transmission tries to fight the power.
Yeah, it's an issue. Had several rental cars that acted a little weird from a stop light. However, if the price was right and I had a warranty to 100k, I may be tempted.
We like our 2012 Focus 2.0 DCT. It's driven like a rental car.
Definitely a real issue. There's at least one TSB on it, probably more. My son and daughter both bought '13 Foci new. The problem seems to be random - His has had issues, hers hasn't, yet anyway...
I wonder if creepers have more problems than others. The clutch doesn't start to engage until you lift your foot off the brake, which is weird to get used to and you definitely can't do some of the things people get used to doing with a torque converter automatic.
Creepers are what I call people who stop 1-2 car lengths behind the car in front of them at a light, and inch forward every few seconds until the light turns green.
Knurled wrote: I wonder if creepers have more problems than others. The clutch doesn't start to engage until you lift your foot off the brake, which is weird to get used to and you definitely can't do some of the things people get used to doing with a torque converter automatic. Creepers are what I call people who stop 1-2 car lengths behind the car in front of them at a light, and inch forward every few seconds until the light turns green.
When they first came out with these transmissions I was a very active member of a couple Focus forums. When people started complaining I asked some questions of them.
I found there was a high correlation between having problems and what type of transmission their previous car had. Those who previously had convetional automatics were much more likely to have problems than those who had had a manual transmission.
Hal wrote:Knurled wrote: I wonder if creepers have more problems than others. The clutch doesn't start to engage until you lift your foot off the brake, which is weird to get used to and you definitely can't do some of the things people get used to doing with a torque converter automatic. Creepers are what I call people who stop 1-2 car lengths behind the car in front of them at a light, and inch forward every few seconds until the light turns green.When they first came out with these transmissions I was a very active member of a couple Focus forums. When people started complaining I asked some questions of them. I found there was a high correlation between having problems and what type of transmission their previous car had. Those who previously had convetional automatics were much more likely to have problems than those who had had a manual transmission.
Interestingly, this will be the first manual I've known my wife to own lol
The GM dealership I work at stopped putting them on the lot for sale after we took them in on trade. We sold 4 used Focuses (Focii?) with around 40K miles and every one of them ended up at our sister Ford dealership getting a trans overhaul in the span of 3 months. Now, if we take them in on trade, they just go to auction.
This is why I'd be tempted to gamble on one if I was in the market. Because of the issue, resale value is crap, you can get them for peanuts. At the first sign of an issue, scream and holler for Ford to rebuild the transmission under warranty. I presume the rebuild involves an update that fixes the problem. Now you've got a car with a freshly rebuilt (properly) transmission and paid next to nothing for it.
The issue is the PCM trying to modulate the throttle and clutch to make the car idle forward like a "regular" automatic transmission. The problem is the car isn't a regular torque-converter slushbox, but everyone wants to drive it like it is one.
My wife has a '12 Focus with ~105k miles on it. She's a slow driver: creeps forwards, never gives more than 25% throttle, etc. The car shudders rather often for her, and she's had all the TSBs done.
I have a lead foot. The Focus hardly ever shudders when I drive her.
I love my 2013 Focus, but I've got the 5-speed manual. I would not want to buy a car that I know will have a high probability of issues. I want my car available to drive all the time, not be stuck in the queue at a dealer.
I can creep my Fiesta by just letting up on the brake. There is a creep mode. Maybe it came in the later revisions..
No need to rebuild the transmission, few failures. Other than the TCM programing, the main problem is in the clutches. Mostly caused by oil from a leaking main shaft seal.
The seven year,100,000 mile warranty covers only clutches and the seals plus software calibration. It goes with the car to subsequent owners.
This is taken from the letter I got from Ford relating directly to my '13 Fiesta. Customer Satisfaction Program 14M01.
I would assume that the rest of the transmission comes under the regular power train warranty, 60K/5 years.
Klayfish wrote: The struggle is real! Fight the power!! Or at least the transmission tries to fight the power. Yeah, it's an issue. Had several rental cars that acted a little weird from a stop light. However, if the price was right and I had a warranty to 100k, I may be tempted.
I also had a couple of rental Fiestas. Not sure what auto trans they had but they were the most miserable things, particularly at stop lights. They stumbled and jerked and farted to the point it was dangerous to turn left in front of oncoming traffic. Absolutely hated them.
Things like this (especially the issues with creeping along in traffic) are why IMO, a dual clutch trans has no place in a car that's expected to be used as a DD. Either use a torque converter or add a 3rd pedal.
Having a clutch that you can't control is a recipe for issues like this where the computer ends up slipping the clutch to make the car do what the driver is asking and other behavioral oddities. Add the 3rd pedal and the driver will at least know what's going on and things can communicate better. Swap it for a torque converter and it'll do exactly what the driver is expecting but without self-destructing in the process.
We have a 2012 Focus with the DCT. Sometimes it's annoying but it doesn't really affect driveability and it doesn't seem to be getting any worse over time. There's an occasional shudder when accelerating from a stop and every once in a while it seems like it can't decide which gear it wants to go into.
It does respond better to a certain driving style and yes it is different than driving a traditional automatic. Most of the time it's fine and, while I would prefer a manual, it's pretty fun to drive with the transmission in sport mode. So yes there is potential for it to be an issue but I don't think it's always as much an issue as it's made out to be.
I do worry about trying to sell it whenever that time comes because of all the controversy surrounding the DCT.
Knurled wrote: I wonder if creepers have more problems than others. The clutch doesn't start to engage until you lift your foot off the brake, which is weird to get used to and you definitely can't do some of the things people get used to doing with a torque converter automatic. Creepers are what I call people who stop 1-2 car lengths behind the car in front of them at a light, and inch forward every few seconds until the light turns green.
As one who has always driven (and still drives) only manual transmission-equipped vehicles, I despise people who do that. It's even worse now that I'm driving a car equipped with auto-stop.
In reply to BlueInGreen44:Sounds a lot like my '13 Fiesta.
Klayfish wrote: This is why I'd be tempted to gamble on one if I was in the market. Because of the issue, resale value is crap, you can get them for peanuts. At the first sign of an issue, scream and holler for Ford to rebuild the transmission under warranty. I presume the rebuild involves an update that fixes the problem. Now you've got a car with a freshly rebuilt (properly) transmission and paid next to nothing for it.
Likewise. It sounds like a real non-issue that only affects people who don't drive like me. If it shuddered, I'd just do the reflash and then drive it as is whether it totally fixed the issue or not. (It generally has fixed it, on the Fiestas we've dealt with. Haven't even seen a DCT Focus come through the shop yet) If it didn't shudder, I'd still do the reflash, just because.
I still don't like the idea of a dry-clutch DCT, though. I understand the why, but that doesn't mean I have to like it 
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