Ford - your block cracks; its a wear item

Brett_Murphy said:

GarageGorilla said:

Appleseed said:

Maybe they should have taken some of that sweet bailout candy and used it to design an engine block that doesn't fail.

I gotta say Bro, the Coyote block first introduced around that era ~2009-2010 ish can take hellacious amounts of power before it fauls. Im pretty confident in the Eco 3.5 blocks as well. So I dont know if your comment is on the mark.

They sure as E36 M3 didn't use that amazing engineering for the water pumps in their 3.7

Is the water pump for the Cyclone (3.7) a weak spot? Id never heard about that. The Cyclone is also an excellent motor - it is capable of absobing tremendous abuse for what is essentially a pedestrian v6 designed for base cars. The Cyclone really didnt get the acclaim it deserved because the Coyote was such a revolutionary and awesome motor.

GarageGorilla said:

Fact remains, I've actually taken part in this discussion and offered input. Some of the others braying nonsense in this thread have provided exactly zero input.

Fact is your "input" was a single colloquial anecdote about a single Ford product somehow disproving everything else in thread which was sandwiched by personal insults, jabs, name-calling, and other illiterate, incoherent, and immature internet bullying that would get you laughed at and/or beat down if you had the testicular fortitude to spew them out to a person's face in real life. Your "contribution" has insulted multiple long-term members who have provided literally thousands of positive and constructive inputs over a decade plus of forum activity, made moderators have to respond to reports on posts against the rules when they should be able to be having pleasant meals with their families, and have generally brought the entire GRM community disgrace and embarrassment. 

GarageGorilla said:

Is the water pump for the Cyclone (3.7) a weak spot? Id never heard about that. The Cyclone is also an excellent motor - it is capable of absobing tremendous abuse for what is essentially a pedestrian v6 designed for base cars. The Cyclone really didnt get the acclaim it deserved because the Coyote was such a revolutionary and awesome motor.

It's a known failure point in the FWD cars and there is a class action lawsuit for it.

I understand they had to change the design due to packaging concerns in a transverse configuration. It's timing chain driven and when they fail, they just puke all of the coolant into your oil. Then the engine dies. I now plan to melt the engine down into more useful things in my forge and never buy anything related to Ford again unless they somehow manage to blow my mind. The timing of the engine failure kept me from signing the papers on a Mustang, and I had to endure weeks of sales calls. The calls continued even after I told them about the engine failure and to go stick a Super Duty F350 up their butt, sideways, but afterwards included mentions of extended warranties to try and help quell any misgivings about premature engine failure. Those calls did nothing to improve my opinion of Ford, either.

Brett_Murphy said:

GarageGorilla said:

Is the water pump for the Cyclone (3.7) a weak spot? Id never heard about that. The Cyclone is also an excellent motor - it is capable of absobing tremendous abuse for what is essentially a pedestrian v6 designed for base cars. The Cyclone really didnt get the acclaim it deserved because the Coyote was such a revolutionary and awesome motor.

It's a known failure point in the FWD cars and there is a class action lawsuit for it.

I understand they had to change the design due to packaging concerns in a transverse configuration. It's timing chain driven and when they fail, they just puke all of the coolant into your oil. Then the engine dies. I now plan to melt the engine down into more useful things in my forge and never buy anything related to Ford again unless they somehow manage to blow my mind. The timing of the engine failure kept me from signing the papers on a Mustang, and I had to endure weeks of sales calls. The calls continued even after I told them about the engine failure and to go stick a Super Duty F350 up their butt, sideways, but afterwards included mentions of extended warranties to try and help quell any misgivings about premature engine failure. Those calls did nothing to improve my opinion of Ford, either.

Wow, that so interesting. Im a Ford 'guy' and I wasnt aware that it was that prevalent a failure. I do encourage you though to take another look at the current generation fo Mustang (S550), they are a lot of car for the money. 

Welp, closed. 

And we’re back, everybody. Sorry about him; that problem is now solved. 

Tom Suddard said:

And we’re back, everybody. Sorry about him; that problem is now solved. 

Thank you.

_ said:

 Do you know who almost never has any problems with the main components of an engine? Nearly every Japanese company that has ever existed. 

Except for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mitsubishi.  And, I have heard, Subaru.  (But not Mazda.  Mazda was fine!)

...and realizing that this is now page 3, and seeing the beginning of page 3, I'm just going to avoid page 2 entirely.

In reply to Knurled. :

Everyone has issues.. yes.  

However, It's how the company addresses and fixes them that is most important.

What the guy above me said.

Subaru head gaskets. Toyota V6 head gaskets. Tacoma truck frames. Nissan timing chain rattles. Honda automatic transmissions. Mitsubishi...well, almost anything.

Everyone makes turds now and then.

Best company I've seen support their products? Hyundai. When I worked at a dealer they would replace engines that were waaaaay out of warranty to keep customers happy. I once handled an insurance claim where a lower control arm failed on an Elantra due to rust. We couldn't cover a mechanical failure so I suggested the owner call Hyundai. They had it towed to the dealer the same day and fixed it free of charge. On a car that couldn't see it's warranty in the rearview mirror.

Very few manufacturers really have impressive customer service.

Knurled. said:

_ said:

 Do you know who almost never has any problems with the main components of an engine? Nearly every Japanese company that has ever existed. 

Except for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mitsubishi.  And, I have heard, Subaru.  (But not Mazda.  Mazda was fine!)

 

...and realizing that this is now page 3, and seeing the beginning of page 3, I'm just going to avoid page 2 entirely.

Unless we're talking about the fuel pump, the pcv system, or the turbo on my speed 3. 

Javelin said:

_ said:

 Do you know who almost never has any problems with the main components of an engine? Nearly every Japanese company that has ever existed. 

Say what? RX-8 everything failed, Toyota 1ZZ timing failures and MR2 pre-cat, Honda lifters, Nissan VG heads...

Honda pistons/rings on the K24. V6 heads getting cracked installing valve seats. Original K20's throwing #1 rod through the block. EVERY 3.2/3.5 LEgend/RL head gaskets at 100k. Nissan 2.5's? Some people have a really really short memory. Or selective. Even the Koreans have had problems and they're almost perfect (/sarcasm)

Mndsm said:

Knurled. said:

_ said:

 Do you know who almost never has any problems with the main components of an engine? Nearly every Japanese company that has ever existed. 

Except for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mitsubishi.  And, I have heard, Subaru.  (But not Mazda.  Mazda was fine!)

 

...and realizing that this is now page 3, and seeing the beginning of page 3, I'm just going to avoid page 2 entirely.

Unless we're talking about the fuel pump, the pcv system, or the turbo on my speed 3. 

 

The joke was about RX-8 engines, but in hindsight, the Ecoboost 2 liter is based on a Mazda design...

In reply to Knurled. :

Not really.  I hate to break it to people, but there's more Ford design in the motor than Mazda.  The unique Mazda motors stayed unique- when Ford did the turbo and DI version of the duratac, it was not the MazdaSpeed 6 engine (which was unique to Mazda) that was the basis of it.   It was based off the base architecture as seen in the Focus and Fusion vehicles.  And the later DI variants spread apart pretty darned quickly.

I was in a few of the meetings ~20 years ago, when that engine was being worked out between the two companies.  Our team had more CAD input.  One of my favorite engine families to work on.

Mazda has done a great job on their current line of similar powertrains, but they have zero relationship anymore.

In reply to ddavidv :

I knew someone who had a Hyundai that had a major engine failure before 100,000 miles. They acknowledged a design/manufacturing fault, but they wanted every single oil change receipt before they would replace the engine. Well this guy had done his own oil changes, so they weren't going to do it. But eventually, they did agree to fix it after months of back-and-forth.

In reply to ddavidv :

My coworker was 16k out of warranty with his '12 Sonata, when the engine E36 M3 the bed. Hyundai dealer worked with him, and got it covered. He'll buy another Hyundai. 

In reply to alfadriver :

Oh, I get that, which is why I was careful with my verbiage.  All the same, I found it interesting that when people started to lean on the 2.3s, the blocks were failing in the same manner as the 2.3s in the Mazda6 way back when the design was new, and turbocharging hadn't been done by the factory yet.

Believe me, the Mazdaspeed community was a little annoyed that Ford changed a bunch of critical dimensions, so they couldn't slap $30 Ecoboost rods in their DISIs.

Can we hit GarageGorilla with the ban hammer please? Or maybe a new patio?

In reply to Mazdax605 :

Mazdax605 said:

Can we hit GarageGorilla with the ban hammer please? Or maybe a new patio?

I thought i saw a patio service headed towards grm hq a little bit ago. Something tells me the hammer's already been deployed. 

GarageGorilla? Never heard of him...

Do you have service records at the dealership you're dealing with?  Any service records at all?  Repeat buyer?  Lots of product within the family?   If I had to fight with the manufacturer for a customer, it was always nice to have as many bullets as possible.  Don't bother with the "I was going to buy a new car here, but now I won't" that only makes us laugh in the break room.  Document everything, every phone call, text email what ever.  You are building your case.  When dealing with a less than co-operative person, count to 10, then count to 10 again.  Losing it early on does no good what so ever.  Remind customer service that you are familiar with social media, but would hate to have to take that path.  You are not in the wrong, but you need to get as many of "them" on your side as possible.  You can win this, it takes time and patience.   Before someone asks, I processed my first automotive warranty claim in 1972, and my last one in 2013.  I think I can claim a reasonable knowledge of how the system works.