ransom wrote: and am actually concerned that I'd be embarrassed to be driving around in a Porsche
It is not as embarrassing as driving around in a Subaru with fart can and a big silly wing but it does get a lot of unwanted attention from 8yr old boys, 40yr old men and police officers. I am sure this is why they were available in brown.
carguy123 wrote:carguy123 wrote: Let me begin by saying I'm not a fan of Porsches. BTDT got the Tshirt, etc. My wife and I both hated every minute of ownership. Felt it was a glorified VW. I just got the latest issue where they gave a buying guide for Porsche. We sat there and read these comments out loud to each other and laughed until tears ran down our faces. You have to buy into the "mystique" of the Porsche to read or say these items and still have any desire for a Porsche.Let me say it again, I just think it's just downright funny the things people will do to try to be loved, accepted or to try to prove their superiority. I'm more poking fun at the people than the car. Read the article, it's literally littered with owner comments that we'd consider complaints if they were posted on this forum. Owner comments would make great Jay Leno show fodder. A stand up comic could do several routines off of Porsche, Harley foibles.
The fact that you both quoted and replied to yourself is amusing to me. Who needs conversation when you're always right?
I have never understood the love for Porsche road cars. Now a 917-30, a 962, or even a 993 GT2 RSR would be SICK to have as a vintage racer. If it has a Zuffenhausen crest and has even hinted at going racing, I LOVE IT!
carguy123 wrote: Javelin But a 944 isn't a REAL Porsche!!
You know, I've always been told that on the internet, but when I brought my 944 to the first PCA autocross of the season, every single person there commented about what a great car it was. A solid 90% of them all had a 924, 944, or 968 as their first Porsche as well, and they all thought the 44 was better than the A/C 911, even the 911 owners/drivers.
I totally agree with you on air cooled Porsches though, I really don't get it (except the 914, and I don't know why I like it so much). Water-coolers on the other hand are great! The 944 is pretty awesome, but I would love to move to a Boxster or Cayman. They have all the "classic" Porsche-ness (flat six) with a superior mid-engine layout and actual good looks. Plus the whole reliability and non-quirkiness.
Anybody have a Boxster S they want to sell for an old ass 944? 
This article has the timelyness to arrive in the mail when one of my co-workers was pondering a older 911/Boxster with a Zeintop.
After reading both the articles in the magazine he has decided on an M3/M5
Thanks GRM for saving him the headaches. 
ransom wrote: I have no interest in the status symbol aspect, and am actually concerned that I'd be embarrassed to be driving around in a Porsche, though if I like the car, I guess not driving one because of what other people think is just as dumb as as driving one because of what other people think...
That's not an unusual way to feel. Part of the reason that I've hesitated on pulling the trigger on a e36 m3 is that BMWs still have the lingering stereotype as an asshat's car, with the M3 being the pinacle of that (unfair) characterization. But if other people's views keep me from buying what by almost all accounts is a terrific car, well, the final joke's on me.
But as for Porsches, everyone has their inherent comfort zone. Some people feel that anything rear-engined is wrong. Some feel that Miatas are woefully underpowered. If you want your sports car to be an appliance, Porsches aren't for you. If the percieved virtues outweigh the minuses, well Bob's your Uncle.
FlightService wrote: This article has the timelyness to arrive in the mail when one of my co-workers was pondering a older 911/Boxster with a Zeintop. After reading both the articles in the magazine he has decided on an M3/M5 Thanks GRM for saving him the headaches.
hahahaha oh I think his headache has just started!!
kreb wrote:ransom wrote: I have no interest in the status symbol aspect, and am actually concerned that I'd be embarrassed to be driving around in a Porsche, though if I like the car, I guess not driving one because of what other people think is just as dumb as as driving one because of what other people think...That's not an unusual way to feel. Part of the reason that I've hesitated on pulling the trigger on a e36 m3 is that BMWs still have the lingering stereotype as an asshat's car, with the M3 being the pinacle of that (unfair) characterization. But if other people's views keep me from buying what by almost all accounts is a terrific car, well, the final joke's on me. But as for Porsches, everyone has their inherent comfort zone. Some people feel that anything rear-engined is wrong. Some feel that Miatas are woefully underpowered. If you want your sports car to be an appliance, Porsches aren't for you. If the percieved virtues outweigh the minuses, well Bob's your Uncle.
You guys worry about what other people think too much. I have Porsches, American muscle cars, a diesel dually, ac VWs, sportbikes, 4x4 trucks, Jeeps, etc. I fill just about every stereotype and I just don't care anymore. The same guy that would say "take daddies Porsche home" would drool over my Chevelle and a lot of people that would drool over the Porsches would call the muscle cars "redneck". berkeley them all. Honestly most people are idiots and a lot of "car guys" are single minded morons. It gets old dealing with their reactions to whatever stereotype they think they see, but I'm not going to sacrifice my enjoyment and appreciation of different cars/bikes/etc becasue of them. Okay I feel better now.
Cotton, I like you.
Tom Heath wrote:carguy123 wrote:The fact that you both quoted and replied to yourself is amusing to me. Who needs conversation when you're always right?carguy123 wrote: Let me begin by saying I'm not a fan of Porsches. BTDT got the Tshirt, etc. My wife and I both hated every minute of ownership. Felt it was a glorified VW. I just got the latest issue where they gave a buying guide for Porsche. We sat there and read these comments out loud to each other and laughed until tears ran down our faces. You have to buy into the "mystique" of the Porsche to read or say these items and still have any desire for a Porsche.Let me say it again, I just think it's just downright funny the things people will do to try to be loved, accepted or to try to prove their superiority. I'm more poking fun at the people than the car. Read the article, it's literally littered with owner comments that we'd consider complaints if they were posted on this forum. Owner comments would make great Jay Leno show fodder. A stand up comic could do several routines off of Porsche, Harley foibles.
It was more to get people back on track as to what I did and did not say as well as the purpose of the post.
But thanks for admitting I'm right. To quote myself again I finished the first post off with "I am sorry if I haven't offended all of you. I tried. " 
So does this make it a triple quote of myself or a quadruple?
One more iron in the fire, if the Porsche was at a bottom end price point you'd rag on them constantly and warn people away, but somehow making them expensive makes flaws better somehow? How is that? The more I pay for something the more I want it to be perfect. I'll accept imperfections at a cheap price but I won't put up with them at an expensive price.
But then that might be the purpose of the article.
Well, there's a reason Toyota is still around after all.
I think the Cayman S is pretty awesome, and is #1 on my lottery jackpot list.
carguy123 wrote: If Porsche was at a bottom end price point you'd rag on them constantly and warn people away, but somehow making them expensive makes flaws better somehow? How is that? The more I pay for something the more I want it to be perfect. I'll accept imperfections at a cheap price but I won't put up with them at an expensive price.
I don't agree with this whatsoever.
I'm willing to forgive a lot if a car is fun and rewarding to drive at the limit. Cars that if you were to jump behind the wheel at autocross or track day, you'd finish your run thinking I HAVE GOT TO GET ONE OF THESE. It's why I daily drive a turbo Miata and own an E36 M3, and why cars like the S2000 and Elise are on my wish list. Every 911 I've had the chance to drive has met this criteria.
carguy123 wrote: One more iron in the fire, if the Porsche was at a bottom end price point you'd rag on them constantly and warn people away, but somehow making them expensive makes flaws better somehow? How is that? The more I pay for something the more I want it to be perfect. I'll accept imperfections at a cheap price but I won't put up with them at an expensive price. But then that might be the purpose of the article.
What exactly IS perfect, anyways?
Cotton wrote:ransom wrote: I have no interest in the status symbol aspect, and am actually concerned that I'd be embarrassed to be driving around in a Porsche, though if I like the car, I guess not driving one because of what other people think is just as dumb as as driving one because of what other people think...You guys worry about what other people think too much.
I did say right there that I knew it was dumb... 
I do not have a Porsche, have never driven a Porsche but you can not argue with their motorsports success. The 911 has been winning races sonce it was new, I really don't think control placement is that big of a deal.
Sorry, did I miss something? I've been out tearing up the back roads in my old 911...
I didn't buy my Porsche to impress anyone. I bought it because I've always wanted one and, about ten years ago, I pulled into the paddock at Lime Rock during a PCA Club Race. What I found was a bunch of guys pulling well worn trailers with ratty Chevy pickups. Their 911's were far from the prettiest examples that I'd seen.
But, they were driving the crap out of them.
They were faster and sounded better than just about any other street-turned-track cars that I'd ever seen. When they broke or needed adjustment, competitors swooped in to help in the pits. They were real racers, going really, really fast. At that moment it became clear to me: Every 911 is a race car. And I don't care what anyone else thinks about me when I'm driving it.
And, every car is a compromise. I also own a Miata (I've owned and tracked two). I love it. I think that it's one of the most beautiful sports cars ever. I've wanted one since February of 1989. It handles great. It never breaks. Parts are cheap. The A/C works as it should, even though I never use it. And, in spite of the fact that I'm not a really big guy, I've never fit in it all that well. I've had six different seats in it. I am convinced that there is not a good seating option for them. The shifter is fantastic. Most of the interior controls are exactly where they should be. It is underpowered. But I still love it.
My WRX is fun and capable in any weather, but the back seat is too small and it has some turbo lag. It understeers. Also, the water pump failed before it should have. I love that car, too.
My Accords are comfortable and reliable, and I love that about them. They are boring, but I know that my wife and kid will get to where they need to go without a failure. I sleep better because of it.
My Tacoma pickup could use more power and it leaked water into the cab until I fixed the things that Toyota should have gotten right at the factory. But it moves the snow and pulls my trailer up hills. It is the perfect truck for my needs.
911's are expensive to fix? Bah! Do your homework before hand and buy the right one. Sure, if you need to buy pistons and cylinders or if you stuff it into a guardrail, okay, it will cost you. But most parts are reasonable and easily available. And everything has been done before, so there is plenty of information and help out there.
Evil handling? That story's a relic from the narrow tire / short wheel base / light front end days. They addressed most of that in 1968 and the rest in 1978.
Maintenance? Buy the books, Bob Costas. Porsche supplied you with most of the things that you'll need in the tool kit. These things are easy to work on.
http://www.101projects.com/Porsche-101/index.htm
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/BOOK/POR_BOOK_bkptec_pg7.htm
Are there "substitutes" out there? Sure. There are alternatives to every car I've owned, and probably for all the others that I haven't. But my 911 is just about the most enjoyable car that I've ever driven, even though the A/C sucks.
Every car is a compromise. They wrote an article on old Porsches because people are interested in old Porsches.
Maybe you're just old...
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It is not as embarrassing as driving around in a Subaru with fart can and a big silly wing but it does get a lot of unwanted attention from 8yr old boys, 40yr old men and police officers. I am sure this is why they were available in brown.
I don't know whether to feel insulted or proud of my Subaru after this comment...
HiTempguy wrote: I don't know whether to feel insulted or proud of my Subaru after this comment...
It depends... how big is the fart can? I had to borrow an STi from a buddy at the track to get a tire mounted... man did I feel ridiculous driving around in it with the extra-extra huge wing and sticker package.
Woody wrote: Sorry, did I miss something? I've been out tearing up the back roads in my old 911... ... What I found was a bunch of guys pulling well worn trailers with ratty Chevy pickups. Their 911's were far from the prettiest examples that I'd seen. But, they were *driving the crap out of them*. They were faster and sounded better than just about any other street-turned-track cars that I'd ever seen. When they broke or needed adjustment, competitors swooped in to help in the pits. They were real racers, going *really, really* fast. At that moment it became clear to me: *Every* 911 is a race car. And I don't care what anyone else thinks about me when I'm driving it. .... 911's are expensive to fix? Bah! Do your homework before hand and buy the right one. Sure, if you need to buy pistons and cylinders or if you stuff it into a guardrail, okay, it will cost you. But most parts are reasonable and easily available. And everything has been done before, so there is plenty of information and help out there. Maintenance? Buy the books, Bob Costas. Porsche supplied you with most of the things that you'll need in the tool kit. These things are *easy* to work on. http://www.101projects.com/Porsche-101/index.htm http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/BOOK/POR_BOOK_bkptec_pg7.htm Every car is a compromise. They wrote an article on old Porsches because people are interested in old Porsches.
EXACTLY
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It depends... how big is the fart can? I had to borrow an STi from a buddy at the track to get a tire mounted... man did I feel ridiculous driving around in it with the extra-extra huge wing and sticker package.
A 3" straight pipe off the turbocharger The big wing is a necessity, wouldn't want to get the car confused with a 2004 beige malibu...
BTW:
http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-Exceptionally-fast-500-hp-1988-Porsche-944-Turbo-Coupe-W0QQAdIdZ282280868#
DO WANT!
Edit-
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: For the record... All us sour grape drinking moneybags polish our $1600 master cylinders while picturing you having missionary sex in your Malibu.
Apparently my original post about this didn't work.
First off, anybody that imagines ME having sex has problems. Second of all, I tend to enjoy missionary sex in the back of a Malibu, thank you very much.
And with a name like Giant Purple Snorklewacker how can anyone NOT think of you having sex in a Malibu or otherwise. 
Got further along in the mag and reached the article on the Boxsters. I was reading with a more favorable mind set cause here was a properly engineered car and I came upon the sentence that said the intermediate shaft bearing failed every 30k-45k miles and you should replace it every time you replace the clutch.
HUH? Once again, that would be totally unacceptable in a reasonably priced car, but somehow is acceptable because the car costs a lot?
I liked where they said you could replace the Porsche "lump" (direct quote) with the lighter and more powerful WRX engine (out of a cheap[er] car). I'm betting GRM gets lots of hate mail for that one!
carguy123 wrote: Jay, controls in the wrong place were considered to be the root cause of the Audi unintended acceleration. The pedals were offset and when people quickly put their foot down to hit the brake they hit the gas instead. Since they thought their foot was on the brake they just kept pressing harder and harder.
Actually, 'Consumer Reports' making E36 M3 up for the headlines was considered to be the root cause of the Audi "unintended accelleration". Honestly, if you can't handle the pedals being 2" to the left, or the headlight switch being on the wrong side of the steering wheel, or whatever, you'd better just buy one car and stick with it forever. Don't go all critical of automakers for not making every car exactly the same.
Then again, my daily driver has me shifting gears with my left hand so what do I know?
Expensive sports cars are tedious, more costly, and annoying to maintain, I thought that was pretty much normal.
Nobody buys them because they are the most reliable cars on earth and I think very few expect them to be.
You'll need to log in to post.
