From the pictures there is serious rust in the intake ports. Animal poop is not a good sign. I pulled apart a low mileage Corvette SBC that I bought for a project. It had not been stored correctly and mice had gotten into the intake. Their pee had eaten away two valve seats and corroded two cylinders so badly the block and 1 head were junk.
I hope you don’t find out you have a $500 boat anchor.
trying to take a head off UPSIDE DOWN is not a good Idea, theTHINGS Seem to weigh twice as much trying to hang on to them. get help.. leave the mount spindle on back and get it back on the ground. those head bolts will be tough even sitting on the ground. remove heads then set it back on the stand
IF you raise the engine a few inch's above the the stand then pick up the stand , slip the spindle in, lock it where you want it then set the stand on the ground.
GTXVette said:trying to take a head off UPSIDE DOWN is not a good Idea,
Doing ANY engine disassembly with the engine upside down is a bad idea.
If there is any "stuff" in the oil pan, you distribute it to the rest of the engine as soon as you roll the engine over.
Wait until the oil pan is off before you roll an engine over! And preferably the heads too.
Everything in the pan already rattled its way down into the guts of the engine after it flipped over. I think that's where that missing lifter and rod are. Plus, a waft of rust-dirt fell out. This thing absolutely has to get hot tanked once it is apart. I'm hoping it isn't a boat anchor, but it turns out I probably got a $500 engine for $500.
I also realized after I posted that what a poor idea trying to pull a 100 pound head off is while underneath it.
In reply to Brett_Murphy :
Try pulling one out of an early 70s Mustang engine bay with the exhaust manifold still attached. 351C heads are a little smaller than BBC but not by much...
I've not been able to work on this for the past few days. I had some well and plumbing issues. Cascading failures are almost as much fun as non-contextual problems.
So, I messed with it a bit tonight. The plan was to remove the heads, but it didn't work out that way. One (and only one) of the outside bolts holding on the head started out mostly round and just got very round. I'm probably going to have to weld something to it to get it off.
More documentation, mainly for me to remember later on.
The springs are double sprung with something orange in them. I'm going to have to get a tool to get these off, I don't own one.
The rockers had a convex fitting that goes in them, and the nut goes on that. The nut was convex on one side and concave on the other. It seemed odd, but the convex side of the nuts were facing up and the concave side was down. So, the concave side of the nut was on the flat top side of the fitting that nests in the rocker.
The pushrods are uneven in length, as GTX pointed out earlier. Some are still mostly shiny, some have some surface rust. The shorter ones towards the intake seem to have more surface rust.
The keepers are all in good shape.
I think the nuts are upside down.No biggie right now, There are a couple GOOD books on rebuilding A BB so get one. The one I do not own is the one I will Suggest to you so I will Find out the Title and relay that info.
Get the front cover off then the Oil pan then the other head (get help), Now you really can get the crank out at this point with that one head still on, Remove the timing chain first and of course all the push rods, The Ring at the top may prevent the pistons from coming out easy, try honing them down a ridge reamer can be Brutal on a cylinder wall.
In reply to Brett_Murphy :
Standard ball type rockers.
Convex side faces up those are self-locking nuts so they will hold an adjustment without a locknut, or setscrew like Polyloks.
So far, typical BBC stuff... except the head bolt, that has me a bit concerned. I might consider cutting the head of the bolt instead of welding on it. Pull the head and worry about the stud after you get the tension off of it.
Surface rust on the pushrods is not an issue. If you're worried about it, a scotchbrite pad will take care of it. Let us know if you find any other rust, especially in the cylinder bores or lifter bores. Very unlikely to find rust in the lifter bores, but possible, and that bears further digging. The only time I see rust in lifter bores is when coolant has mixed with oil and the water makes rust happen where air can't typically get to.
Inside the rocker arms where the rocker ball lives should be nicely polished and not galled. Both ends of the pushrod should also be shiny polished and have no gouges or scratches. Lay all 16 pushrods on a flat surface and roll them to make sure they aren't bent in any way.
Valvespring compressors are cheap like this one. They are just a simple prybar lever that hooks under the rocker nut and you push down to compress the spring. Push it down and gently tap up on the valve and remove the locks and retainers.
You likely already know this, but it is wise to keep all valvetrain components in order for re-use, especially lifters if it is a flat tappet cam. I like to take a piece of cardboard and stab the pushrods through in the same order as they came out. Valve springs can go in a labeled egg carton. Given the super cheap price for replacement parts, it might also be wise to just get new pieces. If you're still planning on a cam swap, never re-use a flat-tappet lifter on a new cam or vice versa. Since you have a pretty wildly mismatched cam/compression thing going on, I don't think this is an issue. I would take the cam and lifters and throw them in the trash if the cam actually has the specs we discussed before. Or make them into a neat piece of art. Or keep it under the seat as a way to protect yourself from attackers.
This is premature, but I'll post it while it's on my mind. When you get to re-assembly, talk to me. There are some things I've learned over the years and (like I said, I'm a bit rusty) but this could be important: Assembly lube. Use it where it is needed, but don't use it where it isn't needed. Assembly lube has some bigger particles in it which get caught in the filter. It isn't common, but I have seen new assemblies go belly up as the assembly lube gets washed into the filter and the bypass valve lets unfiltered oil with lovely machining bits get pushed through the engine.
There are two types of assembly lube which I lovingly call A) death paste and B) strawberry syrup. Death paste does not really mean "death." That is a hyperbolic description I use from a story of an engine I bought once that was slathered all over inside everywhere with the grey assembly "grease".... the cylinders, lifter valley, the entire crank... it was like two full bottles of the stuff was all over the place. If I had started it, it likely would have hydrolocked. If it even fired, oil pressure would have likely never developed, and if it did, the filter would have clogged right away and bypassed allowing all the fresh machining leftovers to flow to the rest of the engine.
Strawberry syrup has far few solids and a little goes a long way. It is a slimy liquid as opposed to a thick paste. My general rule goes like this: Any journals, bearings, and bores get fresh motor oil. Period. Dip pistons in oil before installing. Soak lifters in oil overnight before installing. Rod and main journals and bearings get oil. Any parts that are a direct, high-pressure metal-to-metal get strawberry syrup. That means the cam journals get oil, but the lobes get assembly lube. The base of the lifters, tips of the pushrods, rocker balls, and valve tips get assembly lube.
The only time I would use the paste instead of the syrup is if you know the finished assembly might sit for a year or more before firing.
Get yourself a cheap oil priming tool. Run it for about 5 minutes before startup. Once it starts, you can stop it for a change; carb adjustment, timing adjustment, but the most important thing... can't stress this enough... RPMs must stay at 1500 rpms or more for 20 minutes. The cam lobes are entirely lubed by oil that gets thrown on it from crank counterweights. If it idles during cam break-in, it won't get enough lube during that critical time. Flat-tappet cam break in is misunderstood by many, but I'll explain.
Cams are made from cast iron which is relatively soft, then the outside .005" or so is induction hardened. Same for the base of the lifters. So here's the metaphor I use for cam break in. Imagine you have two sheets of 400 grit sandpaper on two sanding blocks. Rub them together for a long time. Both pieces of paper will give up their abrasive material at similar rates until they work themselves smooth. In the case of cam lobes and lifters, you can imagine the need for higher rates of lubrication from higher RPMs as this happens between two pieces of iron.
This is also why you can't put new lifters on an old cam or vice versa. In that metaphor above, imagine your two smooth pieces of paper after break-in. Now imagine replacing one of the pieces of sandpaper with a fresh sheet of 400 grit. It would tear through the old piece of paper in a heartbeat.
I wish I were a little closer and had more time. I would love to build an engine with you.
In reply to Brett_Murphy :
"The springs are double sprung with something orange in them. I'm going to have to get a tool to get these off, I don't own one."
They are not double springs, they are stock single springs with a damper. the orange is the umbrella style valve seal. Have a look at the spring seats on the exhaust springs to see if you have a thick steel looking seat under them, if so, you have valve rotator seats. GM started putting these in to help the ex valve spin. Crane sells a special solid seat to replace it.
valve spring compressors are common, im sure harbour freight will have one.
In reply to Curtis :
You’ve got mail
You can rent a valve spring compressor for your FLAPS. I actually just brought my head to the store, rented the tool, and did my springs there at the store.
Thanks for the replies, everybody.
I already know some of the push-rods are bent, so I was going to replace them. They are bent enough that it looks like somebody hooked something to them and dragged the engine by them. That was one of the points I used to haggle the engine price.
Everything is getting hot tanked once it is apart. I'll take some more pictures the next time I work on it. I've been thinking about the intended location for this engine. While I may be able to jam the engine into the truck and get it moving for Challenge money, that seems like a really bad idea. Doing the swap right is going to take a bit more budget. I'll need a new differential, transmission, etc. I'm also thinking that using a carb vs. the TBI may make more sense.
Since staying under a $2000 budget isn't a goal, building the engine properly from scratch seems really the only way to go. That, or maybe once I get it taken down and understand it a bit more, I'll throw it up for sale on the forum. After watching Roadkill and looking at some forums, it seems like I could wind up spending near as much getting a big block rig dialed in as I could using a modern 5.3 or 5.7 engine/transmission combo.
I will probably start a new thread for the build and try to get Curtis, Patrick and the rest of the Big Block Boys involved so I don't do stupid things.
SVreX said:In reply to Curtis :
You’ve got mail
Gotcha
To be perfectly honest with you, considering the amount of corrosion I'm seeing, I'd pull that crank before worrying about the heads coming off.
If it needs a crank or needs to be line bored, the thing is already so f-ed that you're farther ahead to find a different engine.
We're getting there. Moving and turning it is difficult with it being as heavy as it is, so I'm mainly trying to get the weight down so I can flip it without using the hoist again.
If it's wrecked, then it's a learning experience in more ways than one.
I got the heads off. It took an hour of fiddling with the Dremel to remove the stripped bolt head. All of the other bolts came out just fine and the threads don't seem to be buggered up. The heads were put aside for now.
I seem to have lost my harmonic balancer puller, so that's it for now.
Though, after what people have said here and doing a bit more research on my own, it seems that getting a big block into the pickup will likely cost about as much as doing an LS1 swap.
Apparently there is one year of the 480LE that is controlled with a dedicated control unit, so that may be a possibility over a TH400.
If you are going Carb then an E-trans is nuts , just get an early 700r4/ 200r4 and just use a switch for Lockup of the T C. I drove a buick455 W/200r4 For YEARS and never used the Lock up.
If you can find an early (90-92) diesel truck it should have the standalone 4l80e harness and controller from what I remember. Transmission wouldn’t be necessary to grab as it can work on the others.
Patrick said:If you can find an early (90-92) diesel truck it should have the standalone 4l80e harness and controller from what I remember. Transmission wouldn’t be necessary to grab as it can work on the others.
This is true, but the standalone computer still needs all the input from the sensors which feed through the diesel's ECM. It can be done, but you'll end up more or less completely outfitting the engine with the entire complement of redundant sensors. Also, part of the signal used by the TCM is the tach which is on the P-post of the alternator in the diesels so you need to be sure that not only you have the correct CS-style alternator, but that you get the pulley ratios right. Then outfitting it with a throttle position sensor, MAP sensor, etc.
Long story short, you can use a 4L80E, but there is no simple way to do it. It ends up being mostly a wash... you either spend the money on making a 4L80E work with all the factory stuff hacked, you spend the money on an aftermarket TCM, or you spend the money on a TH400 with a GV Overdrive behind it and have a 6 speed auto with OD that will take more abuse than you can imagine.
Curtis said:
you spend the money on an aftermarket TCM, or you spend the money on a TH400 with a GV Overdrive behind it and have a 6 speed auto with OD that will take more abuse than you can imagine.
I'd no idea they had an overdrive for a TH400.
GTXVette said:If you are going Carb then an E-trans is nuts , just get an early 700r4/ 200r4 and just use a switch for Lockup of the T C. I drove a buick455 W/200r4 For YEARS and never used the Lock up.
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm really just looking for a transmission that will be able to handle the big block and that will work in the truck. Like I said, I'm starting to question the 454 idea at all. If I do decide to sell it, I want to make sure it isn't a turd, though.
A BB With A Carb Is Less Expensive Than An LS Swap Unless You Get EVERYTHING at once from a donor. 700 and 200 r4 tranny only need an elect. switch to lock up the TC ,Just A Simple Toggle Takes 20 min. to install, for a work truck use the 700 , A BB costs a little more to build 30% Than a SB, But A Grand Will Build a nice motor.
You'll need to log in to post.
