Ohh yeah.. Forgot the 4.8.. That is an unloved but good engine. http://greenville.craigslist.org/pts/4785917104.html
find something like this.. and make it work.
Ohh yeah.. Forgot the 4.8.. That is an unloved but good engine. http://greenville.craigslist.org/pts/4785917104.html
find something like this.. and make it work.
So the Tunatruck already has a rat motor? I'd hang onto that bad boy! 
IMHO your biggest gains would be found by ditching the carb in favor of a multipoint (not TBI or Vortec 'spider') fuel injection setup with modern spark management. Are boneyard parts available to go that route? I know later Gen 1 small blocks were available with MPFI, were big blocks available as well?
According to these pages, the 1996 and later big blocks came with sequential FI but were called Vortecs? http://www.vortec454.com/index_files/Page473.htm http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/chevy_big_block_v8.htm
If so, that intake etc would be a nice place to start. Crank trigger ignition, decent flowing exhaust, maybe a compression bump to take advantage of the spark management and you could easily be where you want to be. Hell, even swap in the complete engine! GM's already done the hard work.
"vortec" is a GM marketing term that means "gas truck engine"... it started in 87 or so and was applied to everything from the 4.3 v6 to the 8100 big block used from 99-06 or thereabouts. it became widely used by the general public when they put the awesome heads on the 350 starting in 96, and those are the heads that are most commonly being referred to when someone says they have "vortec heads" on their engine.
the 96-99 454 had multiport efi and had heads that were actually pretty decent if a modern big block is what you are after.
you can get complete running 8100's for not too much money, but they are bigger than a regular big block and are just different enough from the old school big blocks to keep you from doing cheap and easy upgrades later on. but they are also 496 cubic inches, so how much upgrading do you really need to do for a cruiser, anyways? one advantage of the 8100 is that they are internally balanced and you can reuse whatever flywheel and clutch setup you might happen to have from a previous 350 (or inline 6), which saves a little money compared to swapping a 454 in place of a 350 or whatever.
i haven't looked up the cost, but GM does sell all the parts to put the ignition setup off an 8100 onto any older big block and control the 8 individual coils with something like an MSD ignition controller for an LS engine, or maybe you could scavenge all the parts off a dead motor and do a distributorless ignition setup on the cheap.
I'd seriously consider a Cadillac 500. I know the age and possible wear, but the advantages are huge, if you have the guts to try one.
Curmudgeon wrote: So the Tunatruck already has a rat motor? I'd hang onto that bad boy!
For a junkyard MPFI, what about a Tuned Port Injection unit off of a 3rd gen Camaro? A megasquirt would do the banked-fire to multi-port conversion. Larger runners could facilitate more displacement (I'm told the runners tend to choke the three-fifty). Plenty of other aftermarket goodies to bolt on. Makes it easy to turbo...
Hell, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff!
Appleseed wrote: I'd seriously consider a Cadillac 500. I know the age and possible wear, but the advantages are huge, if you have the guts to try one.
For my build, there is no advantage!
Slightly better weight over a SBC, sure. Less power potential than a gen III, doesn't look at all like it belongs there, no motor mount/exhaust solutions... A good motor for sure, but not for this.
Curmudgeon wrote: So the Tunatruck already has a rat motor? I'd hang onto that bad boy!
No, it doesn't have a big block. I think some wires got crossed in our communication. At any rate, modern big blocks are around, and are FI, but have no provision for a mechanical fuel pump if I switched back to carb, and the same issues about money I don't need to spend arise. Plus, tons more weight on the front end for a truck that doesn't have power steering.
pres589 wrote: DIYMatt or someone did an LS swap into a similar truck, I think, and used Camaro manifolds or some such parts. There's a build thread on it. A 4.8 + LS6 cam would be within your acceptable HP range, I believe, and be cheap. Would need to get it tuned on a dyno once it's all together. Obviously a 5.3 would be even more acceptable but would probably cost a bit more.
I'd be looking for a 6.0. The price seems to be about the same for either, and I like cubic inches. You’re right about the manifolds though.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: What about adding an old school engine, but building your own TBI or multiport setup to hide under the stock looking stuff. You like a challenge.
Except I pretty much nixed the FI setup idea in the OP. I don't want to go redoing all of my fuel lines and tank all over again since I just did them, not to mention added cost for a good pump, surge tank, wiring, etc. Plus, that doesn't give me a rebuilt engine. So, uhh, no.
No goals met.
Travis_K wrote: Keep in mind with an LSx you are looking at a bit of $$$ for headers or doing an ugly plasma cutter hack job on your frame to get the exhaust to fit.
I thick the swept back exhaust manifolds may fit. The stock ramhorns look roughly like that. We'll see I suppose.
novaderrik wrote: throw a Dirtymax in there and be done with it.. it will be cluttered and it's a heavy engine, but 650 torques compensates very well for that.. and the hood is closed 99% of the time, anyways..
Well that would accomplish exactly zero of my goals, other than that it's a great idea!
Hungary Bill wrote:Curmudgeon wrote: So the Tunatruck already has a rat motor? I'd hang onto that bad boy!For a junkyard MPFI, what about a Tuned Port Injection unit off of a 3rd gen Camaro? A megasquirt would do the banked-fire to multi-port conversion. Larger runners could facilitate more displacement (I'm told the runners tend to choke the three-fifty). Plenty of other aftermarket goodies to bolt on. Makes it easy to turbo... Hell, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff!
Ahh! I DO NOT want to swap a carb to FI. That is pretty much the opposite of the goal, you guys are like herding cats!!
I should have stopped this thread whenever we agreed that the “big block look” gen III was the answer.
Personally I'm wanting to build a 377?/383 with a ported big runner camaro TPI and a medium largish turbo. OD trans with 3.10ish gears should let it loaf along and get fair mileage. But if I was going for a classic truck with a moderate power plant the LSx with the big block look covers would be near the top of the list.
I don't remember if it was here or I stumbled onto it somewhere else but a while back I saw a build where a guy plopped a 4.2 Trailblazer I-6 into a 3rd gen Camaro/Firebird.
They can't be that big... 
tuna55 wrote: Ahh! I DO NOT want to swap a carb to FI. That is pretty much the opposite of the goal, you guys are like herding cats!! I should have stopped this thread whenever we agreed that the “big block look” gen III was the answer.
Have you given any thought to importing a 20b twin turbo from a Eunos Cosmo? 
I'll be the dissenting voice and tell you that I HATE the fake valve cover look on the LS engines. I'd rather have factory plastic all over the engine then that.
I honestly think your best bet is to bite the bullet and get the machine work done on your motor. It simplifies about a billion things and gets your the aesthetics you want. And speaking of aesthetics, you can save a LOT of money right now by just doing the mechanical work on the motor and saving the valve covers/air cleaner/nice accessories until later. Get the truck operating well and make it all shiny when you have the money.
For a carb motor in the HP range you're talking I don't think a swap accomplishes anything other than making your life more difficult.
Centerbolt valve covers can be cured with a speedway adapter.
Id honestly fint the best vortec 350you can, ring bearing it, put your quadrajet on, and roll. It'll be cheaper than ls, torquey, quiet, and dead nuts reliable. Parts anywhete, no afteaftermarket stuff other than a carb intake.
Hit the easy button man.
Like the stock look? I say rebuild/paint the stock engine. Aluminum heads take paint just fine. That or Jag V12.
What do you have now again? It sounds like you have some sort of Chevy big block. What condition is it in?
Dusterbd13 wrote: Centerbolt valve covers can be cured with a speedway adapter. Id honestly fint the best vortec 350you can, ring bearing it, put your quadrajet on, and roll. It'll be cheaper than ls, torquey, quiet, and dead nuts reliable. Parts anywhete, no afteaftermarket stuff other than a carb intake. Hit the easy button man.
Or, if you're going to spend over $1500 on rebuilding your engine I'd go the easy EASY route and buy a dressed crate engine and some of those v/c adaptors. Sell your runner for good money and the rebuild makes even less sense.
The great thing about the LS is that in theory you should be able to find a stock engine with no leaks and lowish miles so you don't have to spend anything on a refresh. Plus you get some nice things like a serpentine drive. The same applies to a Vortec motor just with less power and more age.
At this point I think your choices should be build what you have or buy something that WILL NOT be torn apart. Unless you buy extremely well a used engine that needs some of the same work yours does doesn't make financial sense. Since you're not in a huge hurry I'd watch CL and attend some swap meets in your area. Finding a better engine than yours already done for less than the cost of rebuilding yours shouldn't be too difficult. Are you a member of any local car/truck clubs or forums? The deals are out there if you have the time and know where to look.
Lastly, I know you don't have the time or room, but buying and parting a beater or wreck with the engine you want is the best way to get it for the least cash.
mazdeuce wrote: I'll be the dissenting voice and tell you that I HATE the fake valve cover look on the LS engines. I'd rather have factory plastic all over the engine then that. I honestly think your best bet is to bite the bullet and get the machine work done on your motor. It simplifies about a billion things and gets your the aesthetics you want. And speaking of aesthetics, you can save a LOT of money right now by just doing the mechanical work on the motor and saving the valve covers/air cleaner/nice accessories until later. Get the truck operating well and make it all shiny when you have the money. For a carb motor in the HP range you're talking I don't think a swap accomplishes anything other than making your life more difficult.
As to this, you have good points but may be missing some of the pieces:
With my current engine, if it were magically rebuilt for free :: waves wand :: for dress up, all I would do is paint it. I do not seek to have any dress up items, even if they were free.
I literally don't want to replace the valve covers, accessories (only the alternator and water pump FYI) or air cleaner.
So that leaves me with a big bill, which looks to be bigger than the big block look gen III.
Although I am actually toying with the idea of modifying a real set of big block valve covers to be coil covers and handing the rest on my own.
Dusterbd13 wrote: Centerbolt valve covers can be cured with a speedway adapter. Id honestly fint the best vortec 350you can, ring bearing it, put your quadrajet on, and roll. It'll be cheaper than ls, torquey, quiet, and dead nuts reliable. Parts anywhete, no afteaftermarket stuff other than a carb intake. Hit the easy button man.
But that option basically makes me spend $100 for adapters to get Vortec heads, which probably need to be rebuit as badly as mine do. I guess it's cheaper, but it's still a lot of money (roughly the same amount) as refreshening mine.
Junkyard_Dog wrote: The great thing about the LS is that in theory you should be able to find a stock engine with no leaks and lowish miles so you don't have to spend anything on a refresh. Plus you get some nice things like a serpentine drive.
You make very good points.
I want to highlight this though. Suppose I grab a 6.0 LQ9 for $0 :: waves furiously at magic wand :: and a used MSD controller/intake/carb combo for $15 :: waves angrily at magic wand until it snaps in half:: what cna I do for no-cash that can make the belt drive just an alternator? I guess I can always fab a bracket and run a V belt. I have no issue with that.
The truck, at present plan, will not have power steering or air conditioning. All I need to drive is the water pump and the alternator.
I still don't see how you are spending that much on the stock engine. A complete GM crate engine is only $1575.00 (Delivered!). a water pump is $30.00.
Already painted and ready to go.
You want more powah, throw in a $150.00 cam.
How much is the machine work to get your block checked and heads checked?
wvumtnbkr wrote: I still don't see how you are spending that much on the stock engine. A complete GM crate engine is only $1575.00 (Delivered!). a water pump is $30.00. Already painted and ready to go. You want more powah, throw in a $150.00 cam. How much is the machine work to get your block checked and heads checked?
Because if I am tearing it apart I want stuff. aluminum intake, rebuild or aluminum heads, roller cam (ideally), aluminum water pump, decent pistons ($300 for a set of hypers with a modern ring package), decent rockers, new pushrods in addition to bearings, gaskets and rings... if everything is new that's close to $3 grand. I understand that most of it can be bought used but it's still expensive. If I can do a Gen III big block look for less, it's going to be a better and more reliable engine that makes the same or better power.
Quick question.
What are your goals with this? Can you reiterate them for us (since we all seem to have missed the mark.
wvumtnbkr wrote: Quick question. What are your goals with this? Can you reiterate them for us (since we all seem to have missed the mark.
300-400 hp ACAP (as cheaply as possible) stock appearing, or at least period correct appearance. Don't care about the idle quality, actually would prefer it not to be too smooth, want decent off-idle torque though.
So is a carb swapped 5.3 with 243 heads and MS3/4 cam out of the question? Should get you your HP mark. And can find all of it used. I know you said something about not liking how they look in one of your pics you posted, but that can be fixed.
Never did hear exactly what you have now and what condition it's in...
Dusterbd13 wrote: Centerbolt valve covers can be cured with a speedway adapter. Id honestly fint the best vortec 350you can, ring bearing it, put your quadrajet on, and roll. It'll be cheaper than ls, torquey, quiet, and dead nuts reliable. Parts anywhete, no afteaftermarket stuff other than a carb intake. Hit the easy button man.
Or, keep what you got, get a 383 stroker kit for the rebuild, like this one put a nice cam and intake on it, bolt on your favorite carb and you are right where you want to be, valve covers, HP figures and all. Still will be reliable and other than the recriprocating assembly you should be able to find parts almost anywhere.
pres589 wrote: Never did hear exactly what you have now and what condition it's in...
Thought you were kidding. I alluded to it in post #1, a 350 in need of a rebuild, slimy and nasty, but in good running condition, other than needing valve seals. Phase #1 may very well be to do those valve seals and wire brush the E36 M3 out of it to get it to look acceptable.
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