GTO Handling

Win what? The OP asked about GTO's and YOU claimed your car was better, so spill the beans. Don't participate in the hateful lynch mobs if all you're going to do is throw gas on the fire and run away.

Tell us why the MSM (or is it just yours because of the mods) is so fast? Seriously.

His is a FM turbo'd MSM. It's fast as fawk. I have never seen a stock GTO that could even think about hanging with it..... and I don't like Miata's or turbos. It's definately not "working hard"...ever.

What's even more funneh is the fact that it runs as strong as it does and has got to have the crappiest tune 've ever run across. The car barely runs when it drops below 40 degrees outside.

Javelin wrote: Win what? The OP asked about GTO's and YOU claimed your car was better, so spill the beans. Don't participate in the hateful lynch mobs if all you're going to do is throw gas on the fire and run away. Tell us why the MSM (or is it just yours because of the mods) is so fast? Seriously.

You said "turbo Miata." MSM in particular was not mentioned until i mentioned my car. My car has more in common with your average "FMII turbo Miata" than "MSM" at this point.

Fact: LS2 GTO power/weight ratio = ~9.5
Fact: 92CelicaHalftracs's MSM power/weight ratio = 8.0 (Projected once tune is fixed. With bad tune, ratio is/was 8.8)

My car is not insane, the motor is not on the ragged edge of exploding, it's even a stock unopened motor. Pretty normal fare for your average turbo miata.

This is why some of us find the claims either unbelievable (i'll give benefit of the doubt for a driver mod, i imagine you're pretty good what with your accomplishments i've read on here, and your experience), or misleading due to driver mismatches.

You just said yourself that the miata's handling and weight will make up a difference. What happens when suddenly the power/weight advantage ALSO goes its way? That's the point.

I apologize if i've mislead you with prior posts i've made about my Miata being slow. It is. Compared to my daily driver, that is.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I apologize if i've mislead you with prior posts i've made about my Miata being slow. It is. Compared to my daily driver, that is.

There's not much on this board that ISN'T slow compared to your daily. lol You'd slit your wrists in my DD.

Javelin wrote: What the light cars make up in less tire and brake wear I *more* than made up the difference in in less drivetrain wear.

I don't buy this as a bonus. A full set of R6s in the GTO's OEM size run more than a complete Miata longblock, for starters.

Secondly, the idea that at the GTO's huge pistons flinging back and forth at even 2/3rds the RPM of a Miata don't generate significant forces is a little ridiculous. You're talking about a piston and pin weight of over 600 grams versus a weight of around 400, longer stroke, heavier rods, etc.

Plus I mean if you're doing track days for time and not a Sunday drive, why wouldn't you be using all the power you can handle from the GTO and wring it out through the gears? It's not like the Miata has a redline THAT much higher.

Hey guys lets dial things back a little. The thing that makes the GRM boards great is the fantastic signal to noise ratio. This internet-tough-guy-miata-vs-GTO discussion is pure noise.

Having driven a GTO at the track I found it to be a fantastically fun car to drive. It handles its weight well, though it is no corvette. Stock there is a fair amount of body roll but it takes a set and corners nicely.

I would argue that its weakest point is the brakes. They stop nicely but after being on the track for a while they do tend to overheat. If I owned one and I was tracking it frequently a big brake kit and or some brake ducts would be the first thing I would upgrade.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

Thank you for your honest and complete reply. Your car is not what I would classify as a normal "boosted Miata". A factory forged (assuming) bottom end with a well developed kit on it and mods on top that is going to be bloody quick. Most turbo Miata's are low-pressure affairs on a stock 1.6 or 1.8 in an NA, which I'm sure you will agree, is much less of a car than you are describing.

You do have to realize though, that any mods you can do to a Miata (or an MX-6, or a whatever) can also be done to a GTO. 500HP is about $500 away on an LS2. GTO's are based on a long-running performance platform from down under, and it has a strong aftermarket. Maybe not Fox Mustang levels, but you can replace every single suspension piece with something better if you so choose.

Taking the OP's questions into direct consideration, you have to respect the GTO. It is an incredibly capable car, stock, and with mods the sky is the limit. As a dual-purpose DD/HPDE car, they really are one of the best choices out there, especially if you like power with your handling.

Guy is interested in a GTO , but a stock GTO is no match for a highly modified Miata? And there's no such thing as a fast GTO?

Huh?

12.7 12.8 isn't fast. an auto GTO with a converter and some long tubes will do that all day long @ a trap speed thats probably 3-5mph higher... a 12 sec GTO from a 40 roll is going to eat a 12 sec Miata.

Well... no, it's not a forged bottom end. It's normal fare, and maybe there's more low pressure turbo cars out there or something, i have no idea. When i see turbo miatas, whether it be on the internet or in person, it's usually a guaranteed 225whp+.

As for the rest, yes, i agree that the GTO is a good choice for a dual duty car, that was never my disagreement. I was merely reacting to how the GTO was presented to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and look at how this stock GTO smoked all these turbo Miatas. It was pretty heavy-handed from someone who used to get their jollies off by calling me a Toyota fanboi, and i'm pretty sure i've never made statements as strong as were made in here. That's all.

Either way, a "HalfTrac" would smoke 'em both.

Javelin wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

Javelin wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'll take the Miata. Plus boost. Suddenly a GTO becomes irrelevant.

None of the boosted Miata's were anywhere near the *stock* GTO man. There's a reason Flyin Miata is all about the LSx swaps now.

Ok you win. I'll put the Miata up for sale tomorrow, despite it being quite a bit faster than any stock GTO i've ever driven.

Anytime, anyplace bubba. I have 13.0 timeslips in the glovebox the 100% stock GTO. Let's see your MSM do that.

I had a CRX that could do that.

AutoXR wrote: Guy is interested in a GTO , but a stock GTO is no match for a highly modified Miata? And there's no such thing as a fast GTO? Huh? 12.7 12.8 isn't fast. an auto GTO with a converter and some long tubes will do that all day long @ a trap speed thats probably 3-5mph higher... a 12 sec GTO from a 40 roll is going to eat a 12 sec Miata.

That wasn't really the point... But i'm flattered that you're calling my Miata "highly modified."

I just looked ... and stand corrected.. Mid 11's with an auto...converter and long tubes.

I still don't get why the miata came up. Want something that will pass every miata.

just get a z06....

AutoXR wrote: just get a z06....

Or a regular C5 (FRC, perhaps), and go-fast bits.

I'll be brutally honest: I didn't read this thread, but I was asked to referee a dispute. Everyone, just play nicely. It's okay to have a difference of opinions, but please show some class and respect.

Thank you.

Now that the GTO-Miata catfight probably scared off the OP, did he even ever say he was looking for a track car? Pretty sure he wasn't asking about timeslips either. Just handling, possibly just street handling.

I would vote to stay the course of a c5 zo6......otherwise, if a 4 seater coupe tickles your fancy, e46 M3>gto. A bit smaller, lighter, and much better out of the box. Plus you get a nicer interior, I'd recommend the SMG, and parts are all over the place for it. They aren't much slower than the ls2 goats, and in my bimmer experience, parts may be more expensive, but they rarely break if you take care of them.

If you must get a GTO, save a bit of coin and get an 04 and ls6 head/cam/intake combo.

In reply to yamaha:

While I admit the E46 is smaller, lighter, and more track-focused, I have to adamantly disagree on the interior being nicer than a GTO. Every E46 I've had the pleasure to be inside of was a mess of busted cheap plastic, non-functional windows, and electronic gremlins.

On interiors: GTO>E30>E36>E46>all other GM cars...

I do agree with saving some coin on an 04 and upgrading.

Capt Slow wrote: This internet-tough-guy-miata

Does any one else find this funny?

93EXCivic wrote:

Capt Slow wrote: This internet-tough-guy-miata

Does any one else find this funny?

This is internet-tough-guy-miata

Javelin wrote: In reply to yamaha: While I admit the E46 is smaller, lighter, and more track-focused, I have to adamantly *dis*agree on the interior being nicer than a GTO. Every E46 I've had the pleasure to be inside of was a mess of busted cheap plastic, non-functional windows, and electronic gremlins. On interiors: GTO>E30>E36>E46>all other GM cars... I do agree with saving some coin on an 04 and upgrading.

I wonder if he has a wife. I could argue until I was blue in the face about ways a GTO is superior to an M3. My wife would just keep saying, "yeah, but the GTO is a Pontiac."

In reply to Javelin:

I just feel americans were cheated on the gto's interior.....its the base holden monaro inside. The least they could have done was to put the nicer interiors in them(See vauxhall vxr/HSV line holdens) considering what they wanted for them new.

BMW, never had issues with e46's, the ones I've been behind the wheel of must have been creampuffs.....smg in "burnout" mode is amusing as heck too

Give it up Paul. Javey here is never wrong. Ever. He'll change the question if he has to, but he's never wrong. THe shtick gets old....even for me....and I like to argue.

Bobzilla wrote: Give it up Paul. Javey here is never wrong. Ever. He'll change the question if he has to, but he's never wrong. THe shtick gets old....even for me....and I like to argue.

Be nice.

Otto Maddox wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

Capt Slow wrote: This internet-tough-guy-miata

Does any one else find this funny?

This is internet-tough-guy-miata

Hehehe its one of those things found only on GRM...

If you can get an e46 M3 sedan for that I would buy it over all others.

Weight doesn't play nearly the factor it used to.. The Nissan GTR should be proof enough of that.