I think Lime Rock charges around $250. I've done events at the proving ground run by Modified Machines and paid $120-150
I think Lime Rock charges around $250. I've done events at the proving ground run by Modified Machines and paid $120-150
I'm not falling in love with any of the aftermarket wheel options that I'm seeing out there, so I'm starting to consider just buying tires and putting them on the stock rims, which would mean that I need a little more of an all around tire.
I've read everyone's suggestions and went through the whole GRM tire test link. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S ($235 each) seems to be pretty universally loved, but I admit that my inner cheap bastard is tempted by the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 that are on clearance ($156.59 each), in spite of the meh review.
You will not regret the PS4S.
Another vote for PS4S.
Okay, so I've accepted what the GRM experts have had to say and will go with the Michelin PS4S. Now I just need to decide if I should put them onto the stock wheels (which I really like and already have TPMS sensors), or have the tires mounted to new wheels with aftermarket sensors that may also require different lug nuts.
If I mount them on the stock wheels, I'd eventually have to find another set of wheels and sensors for the old (1,400 mile) tires for the off season. Not sure what the easy answer is, but it probably involves a lot of money.
I think for your use case the PS4S will work well on that small track/autocross setup but if you head out on the race track and push the car to its potential for a session you'll likely come back with chunks of the tire missing.
If I were spending that much on that sort of tire I'd go for the Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02, me being cheap though and with costs being a bit different up here in Canada I'd just end up with another set of the Firestone Indy 500's.
This is the only wheel on Tire Rack that I'm even halfway interested in, but I'm still kinda meh...
adam525i said:If I were spending that much on that sort of tire I'd go for the Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02,
Solid advice ^^
The PS4S is on the end of it's product life cycle, though still very good. ECS02 is an update on the ECS, and is a touch better than the outgoing tire in many ways. That said, the PS4S has a very authoritative steering feel to it, while the Conti can feel a little vague. But...the Conti is way more forgiving.
The Conti is also typically a lot cheaper, but won't last as long. "Pay me now or pay me later" as that famous ad says.
And while both will work for some big track use (they are both commonly used for the One Lap of America 3-lap format), they aren't real happy when run for long, hard sessions.
In reply to Andy Hollis :
Wow... Wisdom from the highest of authorities! Thank you. I will investigate this option.
So, I found this as I was about to post a follow up question. I was just chatting with Tire Rack and had pretty much decided on the PS4S ( though I may go Conti now)...
WHEN should I buy tires? The earliest that I would put these on the car (Connecticut) would be mid to late March. Tire Rack says the the Michelins were produced in mid-2023. Not sure about Contis. Should I wait a little longer to order?
Andy Hollis said:adam525i said:If I were spending that much on that sort of tire I'd go for the Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02,Solid advice ^^
The PS4S is on the end of it's product life cycle, though still very good. ECS02 is an update on the ECS, and is a touch better than the outgoing tire in many ways. That said, the PS4S has a very authoritative steering feel to it, while the Conti can feel a little vague. But...the Conti is way more forgiving.
The Conti is also typically a lot cheaper, but won't last as long. "Pay me now or pay me later" as that famous ad says.
And while both will work for some big track use (they are both commonly used for the One Lap of America 3-lap format), they aren't real happy when run for long, hard sessions.
As the thread went on, based on what you were looking for, this post is spot on. Looks like a Mich/Conti 300-340TW tire will do the job. Great in the rain, great on the street and can withstand some track abuse in short sessions.
I'm sure that the compound is a little different, but these two tires look like they came out of the same mold.
Woody (Forum Supportum) said:
FWIW, I drove an F-series M5 in the pouring rain on the Conti ECS' and it was amazing. Unbelievable "real world" grip.
In reply to Andy Hollis :
I hadn't considered the age of the design with regards to the Michelin until you mentioned it. That combined with the added forgiveness of the new Contis make them sound like the better choice for me.
UPDATE:
Order has been placed, and I'd like to thank everyone for their help.
While a wheel and tire package represents an uncomfortably huge chunk of change, it turned out to be the smart choice in this particular case.
I didn't have an extra set of wheels, and they aren't the easiest size to find. If I mounted the new tires on my old wheels and then managed to locate a decent set of used wheels for the old (1,400 mile) tires, I would have had to pay for mounting and balancing twice. Not to mention the fact that the car would probably have had to sit on jack stands while I got new tires mounted on my old wheels.
I hit the Easy Button here.
I went with the Conti ECS02 (newer design, more forgiving) on BBS wheels (quality brand, exact same size and offset, with a good chance of being able to buy a matching replacement if I ever damage one), OEM TPMS sensors and new lugnuts, all being delivered to my garage, ready to bolt on. And I still have a mounted set of Conti all-seasons on the original rims (that I really like), ready to drop on for the off season.
Once again, many thanks for all the shared wisdom. Even if I didn't go with your suggestion, your advice was carefully considered and I learned something from it.
You guys are awesome.
Round Two:
I should probably upgrade my brake pads...
Go!
Good choice on the Conti, I have them on my NSX and am quite pleased.
For brakes, call Porterfield brakes and talk to Wendy, tell her what you are doing and go with whatever she recommends. She has forgotten more about brakes than I will ever know. Porterfield-brakes.com
If I had to pick, I would probably get a Hawk HP+ or Raybestos ST31 for your use case
https://www.brakepartsinc.com/raybestos-racing-performance/technical-information.html
Good choice, I ran stock size ECS on a stock 2015 WRX at a wet track day and was able to get 1G in the corners. They're amazing.
As for brakes, I like going full race pads matched to a spare set of rotors and swapping them out. I really liked Hawk DTC-60's on my RX8, Hawk HP+ were fine while I was learning on my FC RX7, Porterfield R4's were disappointing in retrospect once I switched to the DTC's and I ran Carbotech XP10's on my WRX with ducts, which were also good. Not all cars have all pads available either, I was quite limited in choice on my WRX. There was a good track brake pad comparison in GRM some years ago with back to back testsing.
Sonic said:If I had to pick, I would probably get a Hawk HP+ or Raybestos ST31 for your use case
I would definitely not buy HP+. All the dust and noise of a track pad, but with none of the high heat resistance.
It's hard to tell how brake-intensive the usage would be from the description -- it kinda sounds like a kart track or overgrown autocross, so if you're only doing 2-3 laps at a time then I expect you don't need a ton of heat capacity and whatever makes a good autocross pad these days would work well. For Hawk I'd either try HPS5.0 (high end streetable pad with 95% of the heat capacity of the HP+) or DTC30 (low end track pad, with a ton more heat capacity)
As with tires, brake pad tech is changing all the time and I've not really been paying attention to autocross-suitable compounds lately.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
Car on a (big) kart track is probably a fair assessment, at least considering the winter events that I did there a few years ago.
A buddy of mine did this last year, and I went up to a couple of the events and rode along. The sessions are about 10 minutes each. There are only a couple of heavy braking areas, but it's quite tight, so not much opportunity to lose heat out of the brakes once it's there. I would suggest getting a good alignment done before you start if you want the tires to survive.
In reply to 02Pilot :
Great info. Thanks!
The Porterfield R4-S is a pretty good compromise pad. I ran them on the back of two different cars for track days and they held up well. I ran them year round on the rear of my GTI.
Yeah the R4S is street-biased dual-use pad that should work for what you're doing, if they don't stand up to the heat you could move up to R4 or R4E.
I tried R4-S on the street and I honestly couldn't tell a difference from whatever street pads were on the car before, but I never put them through any particularly hard use though.
Porterfield R4's were disappointingly wooden feeling and needed quite a lot more pedal pressure than other track pads. My dad used them back to back with (I think) DTC-60's and they suffered way more taper wear due to needing to squeeze them a lot harder (so more caliper flex). Unless they're one of the only options for that car, I'd pass.
I placed an order with Tire Rack on Friday at 9:20 am.
Wheel and tire package arrived, mounted and balanced, with new hardware on Saturday at 3:05 pm.
Well done, Tire Rack.
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