Help me pick a new 3 row SUV for town and mountain

John Welsh said:

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

My reaction for a car that will be far away and need to be ready to run at all times...  I would want a vehicle/model that has seen the least changes in it's current variation.  A model where the manufacturer got the recipe right.  Not one where the manufacturer is trying out something new.  That become tough in the current crop of new stuff.  

Ford runs you into EcoBoost and they have been less than ideal for some owners and you've had your own experiences.  

Jeep Cherokee is a pretty recent introduction. 

Toyota is onto new V6 turbos with some teething issues.  

With all that said, my gut is the "hasn't been changed in forever, even if it does drive like a truck" outgoing 4Runner.  Yes, the 3rd row is small so with that said, the answer from me is the outgoing Toyota Sequoia.  Seek out a CPO'ed one and you'll get most the benefits of having a new one without the teething issues of the new one.  

 

EDIT: Zoiks!  You can buy two recent used 4Runners for the price of one Sequoia!  That then leads me to another wonder...for me a route to "reliability" is to have two cars when you need one.  Keep up on them and one will always be ready to go.  Maybe one "do it all" is not the answer.  I also imagine in "the land of open spaces" its not uncommon to drive some very long stretches.  Might one vehicle of high-mpg and one vehicle of high-capability be the answer?  

Or, mpg and capability...I'm pretty impressed with the 2.7L full size trucks.  With Ford out for you that leaves GM.  Silverado 4 door with a covered or lockable bed?  Is seating for 5 enough?  Sadly, this engine combo has not made its way down to the Tahoe/Suburban.  

There's a lot of wisdom in the thinking here. The problem is... the 4Runner. I just can't. The one I'm renting right now is just such a turd. I don't know why so many people have a love affair with these things. 

The JV6 in the Pilot has been around for about a million years.  The transmission and diff have some new tricks but I haven't heard about any real problems. Maybe I need to focus in on the Honda more. 

In reply to Ranger50 :

I believe the 2.7s (at least in the trucks) all come with the 8 speed, which is exponentially worse than the 10 speed. I think the 10 is a mixed bag, it has a lot of good things and some problems, but the 8 is just all problems.

I did exactly what John said when buying my wifes daily. A mature platform, without major changes. I landed on a 22 Jeep GC. It may not be the most reliable thing, but I know what Im getting into and what repairs look like. I think we are just shy of 70K and Ive replaced a set of pulsating rotors and put a set of tires on it. Pretty early to decide on reliability since we routinely keep things to 200K, but so far so good and it does everything she asks it to, and it has butt chillers.

So I went car shopping in Bozeman yesterday. quick summary-

Chevy Traverse Z71- they sold both the ones they had, no timeline on getting more. 

Toyota Highlander or Grand Highlander- all are under a stop sale due to airbag issues. 

Jeep Grand Cherokee L- liked the size and the driving experience.  interior was OK, felt a little chintzy. Seats weren't great.  A/C didn't work properly on a brand new Limited, it just blew air out of the defroster and wouldn't move the blend doors to blow air out of the dash vents. Given my pre-existing concerns with FCA quality, hard pass. 

Nissan Pathfinder Rock Creek- pretty good for the price.  Brakes were not good.  Build quality didn't impress, definitely feels like a budget option. Toyo Open Country tires drove terribly and were deafening on the highway.

Honda Pilot- they sold the Trailsport that I wanted. Drove an EX-L, love it compared to all the others. 
 

Today I've been flirting with the idea of stepping up the budget for a Z71 Tahoe, which would probably be perfect except for the size and the price. Both are a big jump up though. I had dinner with a friend who laughed at the idea of using all terrain tires to get up in the mountains in the winter. Looks like dedicated snow tires are essential, which raises the question of why to even bother with a fancy all-terrain version of any of these vehicles other than vanity. Right now I'm leaning towards a Pilot AWD EX-L with a dedicated set of snow wheels/tires. Seems like the right blend of price, size, quality, and reliability. 

So the Honda dealer I've been working with has a Pilot Trailsport due on their lot in two weeks.  It comes with Continental all-terrain tires, a full-size spare, skid plates and recovery points, an additional inch of ground clearance, and a more advanced AWD system.  It's even bright red, which makes me very happy.  I have a deposit down on it and will pick it up when it arrives.

Loweguy5 said:

I would consider a gently used Suburban or Tahoe.  Body on frame, V8, post covid pricing has come back to reality, space for days.  They surprisingly get nearly as good of fuel economy as smaller suvs but offer more room and capability.  

Similarly the Exoedition is a good buy and even roomier.  That ecoboost is properly fun to drive too.

I came to say this as well. A suburban I think would be the answer.  

I can't believe no one has suggested a Y62 Nissan Armada. VK56, lovely V8 noises, and you can get used ones with 50k miles on them for not much more than $25-30k. Barely run-in! I know what I'd be taking a good long look at. Just make sure it's 4WD; I cannot understand why people would ever buy one that's rear-wheel-drive only, and the majority seem to be just that.

I do like the Armada.  The reason so many are just rwd is that Nissan/Infiniti pushes many of these through the rental fleets.  I imagine once they are on used car lots many are bought under the assumption that they are awd.  They might retail for less than their AWD competitor or the dealer makes a bigger profit not clearing the confusion that it's just rwd. 

The spotters guide is a circular selector knob for 4wd on the center console near the arm rest.  If just 2wd then that knob is not there but doesn't clue the unsuspecting enough to notice it's absence. 

 Tahoes, Suburbans, Expeditions, Armadas and their ilk are all perfectly fine vehicles.  Unfortunately they don't meet my criteria of 1) not full truck sized and 2) available for $50k or less with a factory warranty.  I've got a deposit in on the Pilot Trailsport, I think it will meet our needs very well.  I test drove one yesterday and it was great.  Will report back when I have it.

Figured I'd circle back to this thread will a follow-up post.  I picked up my Pilot Trailsport two weeks ago, just as I was moving into a new house.  Over the past two weeks I've used it for just about every job I could think of, and I'm really happy with it.

The day I picked it up.  I love the red color, and the Trailsport interior highlights are a nice touch.

It came with these snazzy Continental TerrainContact AT tires and cool wheels, which certainly look the part.  They are very civilized around town and on the highway.

For mundane stuff, the cargo area is huge and really well thought out.  I've used it to haul all manner of household items up to and including queen sized mattresses.

The morning after I got it I took it to a trailhead to hike.  On the way a deer ran out in front of me while I was going 45-50mph.  I stood on the brakes, the deer and I looked at each other, and we mutually decided that we really didn't want to meet in this fashion.  The deer swerved left, I swerved right, and I ended up clipping it with my driver's side door.  It hopped off no worse for the wear, and my new car seems to be fine except for a nice deer-sized dirt streak down the side.  Emergency brake test- passed.  Deer impact test- passed.

A few nights ago I decided to go to a more remote spot to hike, and I took it up the Flathead Pass, which is a fairly technical offroad section.  I don't know that I would have tried this during the muddy/snowy season, but I figured it was worth a go in the dry season.  The Honda engineers aren't messing around with this "Trailsport" stuff- this thing has serious offroad capabilities.  Plenty of ground clearance, good tires, and the AWD system is magic.  I was impressed.

So overall, after two weeks of heavy use I give it an A+.  Very happy with my decision on this vehicle.

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

Is that smoke from distant fires or more local ones?

Rons said:

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

Is that smoke from distant fires or more local ones?

I'm told that the smoke is from the Chico fires in California.  We also have some fires up near Helena, but that smoke has been blowing north towards Canada.  The winds must have shifted, today we have clear bluebird skies for the first time in nearly a month.

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

Nice write-up...and thanks for updating your thread (good internet etiquette).  
 

Honda should put you in an advertisement since now I'm thinking Trailsport and I'm not even in the market for a new vehicle.  
 

Thanks for the photos.   There's more than enough interior space for my needs, and I'm glad to hear there's a spare tire.  There are significant areas here in Texas where cell service isn't a guarantee and even if you can reach a towing service...are they 100+ miles away and on another call at the moment?

The deer incident reminds me of the Moose Test.  Glad you, the vehicle and the critter appear to have been mostly undamaged.

In reply to Coniglio Rampante :

The fullsize spare was a big part of my decision criteria.  Once you leave the immediate Bozeman perimeter, cell coverage is VERY spotty and many of the outdoor areas I get to have none for miles.  I got a satellite communicator for any mishaps in the backcountry, but I'd rather not have to call wilderness rescue for a flat tire.

Great write-up, congrats on your new Pilot!  

I was having a conversation with a co-worker who was going to trade in a Jeep Grand Cherokee for a new minivan, and bemoaning the lack of ground clearance.  I hadn't really given it a thought until one day we parked Mrs. VCH's Traverse next to a Kia Carnival.  Holy crow, the Carnival looked like a low-rider compared to the more SUV-like Traverse.  While (as you have done in your PIlot) a ton of clearance isn't necessary for most off-road situations in real life, I can't imagine a minivan working for that.  Plus, the Pilot is actually a handsome-looking vehicle, not something resembling an insect.  I really appreciate Honda's overall new styling philosophy.  It's very trim and minimalist, it looks good.  Sort of like a 1977 Impala, or a 1990 Volvo 240 - If you told an 11 year old to draw a car, it would look something like that.