How about a Super Beetle as a track car?

You mean like this?

Never saw a beetle with leaf springs in the rear and I worked on them a lot of years. Torsion bars just like the P car.

iceracer wrote: Never saw a beetle with leaf springs in the rear and I worked on them a lot of years. Torsion bars just like the P car.

yep, all torsion bars.

FWIW, I'm in the middle of a 944 suspension in a Super Beetle project, and it's not nearly as easy as the magazines and internet experts will have you believe.

The rear control arms do go right in, netting you rear disc brakes with emergency brakes. The rear sway bar will work. The front struts are similar, but not the same. Where they bolt up to the control arms is completely different, and so far the solution seems to be either expensive, custom spindles from Germany (Kerscher) and/or a set of custom coil-overs.

There is a lot of parts interchangablity, but I've got the bruised knuckles and grease under my nails to prove that 944 suspension is not a quick bolt-on conversion.

The Germans had a "Kaefer Cup" racing series for Super Beetles for awhile.

http://www.beetlechallenge.com/

site takes forever to load. pretty popular series from what I remember.

Try this link for front coilovers that are direct bolt in but designed to allow 7" wheels. http://toplineparts.com/

Do you have coilovers for canoes?

"Nimrod", how appropriate for someone posting a canoe

stuart in mn wrote: Do you have coilovers for canoes?

JoeyM wrote: "Nimrod", how appropriate for someone posting a canoe

Not a canoe, it actually relates to the past few posts.

fair enough....you have to admit, though, that it is suspicious when a first post for a new user is a link to a business.

nutherjrfan wrote: http://www.beetlechallenge.com/ site takes forever to load. pretty popular series from what I remember.

There is so much awesome in that video of the race at Lydden Hill. Very cool.

Do it! Formula Vee is ranked number 3rd in SCCA's national participation using the same parts from the 50's and 60's. The super Beetle is nice because the parts are much more available, and you might be able to get some sweet shocks from the FV guys.

Good Luck,

Steven

EricM wrote: last one http://www.veedubbing.co.uk/vwshows/spa2005/SPA17L.jpg

I literally dropped my jaw at that one. Wow!

Here is my 72 Beetle doing some laps on the road course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWArjN00V5g And on an ice race track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkR3FOzDu_o It has a stock 1600cc dual port engine with new electronic ignition, new clutch, new 4 wheel disc brakes, studded ice race tires, unstudded ice race tires, dirt tires and asphalt tires. $2000.00

A high school bud had a SB, that thing was evil handling at highway speeds. He'd get it rolling good (70-80 MPH), then turn the steering wheel half a turn each way to show how the front tires were just skimming the ground.

About ACVW leaf springs: IIRC one end or the other of the old ACVWs (but not the front struts on the SB) had 'torsion leafs'. If you yanked the body off to make a dune buggy, you pulled the leaf springs out, then removed one and cut the ends off to make spacers then reinstalled the spring pack. That way the car didn't sit so high.

mattbatson wrote:

iceracer wrote: Never saw a beetle with leaf springs in the rear and I worked on them a lot of years. Torsion bars just like the P car.

yep, all torsion bars.

I think the leaf spring comments were made in regard to autocrossing an F-350. Nothing at all to do with a beetle (super or otherwise).

mattbatson wrote:

iceracer wrote: Never saw a beetle with leaf springs in the rear and I worked on them a lot of years. Torsion bars just like the P car.

yep, all torsion bars.

The only one I ever saw with leaf springs had the body set atop a late-60s Camaro. It also had a 350 small block and side pipes.

In reply to loosecannon:

Your max speed on the road course was 130 kph (about 80 mph), so that doesn't prove anything about the high speed stability.

jstein77 wrote: In reply to loosecannon: Your max speed on the road course was 130 kph (about 80 mph), so that doesn't prove anything about the high speed stability.

80 mph IS high speed in a bug.

Seriously, it's all relative. Tell a drag racer that you hit 70 on your autocross run, and he'll snicker. And the salt flat guys ...

I've thought about setting up a bug for Open Road Racing, where the slowest class tries to average 85 over, say, 50-100 miles of interesting highway each way. Stock bugs have a Cd of about .44, IIRC, and typically run out of steam at about 70. I'm not sure how well a hotrodded Type 1 engine and transaxle would survive that. Type IV, Subaru, Pinto swap?

StevenFV19 wrote: Do it! Formula Vee is ranked number 3rd in SCCA's national participation using the same parts from the 50's and 60's. The super Beetle is nice because the parts are much more available, and you might be able to get some sweet shocks from the FV guys. Good Luck, Steven

Since a Super Beetle has Mac Struts up front, how exactly will a set of sweet shocks from a Formula Vee (which uses the link-pin torsion front beam) help?

I think he meant for the rear.

The Super Beetle is very, very similar to a Porsche 924/944, since they both use similar front and rear suspension parts (924 used modified A1 Rabbit pieces and Super Beetle rear suspension)

I'm using 28mm torsion bars meant for a Super Beetle in the rear of my 924 with 944 alloy rear control arms. On the front are Ground Control double adjustable Rabbit front struts originally used on a Dodge Omni GLH Autocross car.

A super beetle with 944 alloy rear arms, brakes and stiffer torsion bars will open up options for wider wheels and tires. QA1 makes a pretty cheap double adjustable shock that could be easily adapted to the car.

Up front, camber plates and double adjustable struts should help quite a bit.

Adjustable sway bars might be adaptable from a universal circle track solution, there are some well made splined solutions available on the market now.

For top speed, read up on all of the aero tricks used by Fiat 500 and 600 racers as well as racers of old 356/911 racers as they are similar in shape with similar rear engine placement. Ultimately, trying to balance grip front/rear and cleaning up the bottom of the car will go a long ways. Venting the exit of the fenders to reduce pressure build up in the wheel wells could help, just make sure you don't create a cooling issue for the engine.

Good luck, hope to read about some progress with this idea as it sounds like a lot of fun!

Maybe this will answer the question of whether a Super Beetle can be a track car or not.... Watch this video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9w5YIEenQI

Last week, I bought a 74 Super Beetle so I could use the engine in my 69 Baj Bug.

With surprisingly little effort, I talked my wife into the Super Beetle being a $20XX Challenge Car / Autocross toy. Now to do some research and chase some parts. One of the trick is going to be doing enough work on the Baja to keep her happy while making enough progress on the Super to make me happy.

Here are a couple of hotlinks from my fb