"how many other cars he could have bought with the money spent on parts and maintenance"

Is this a logical argument vs maintaining a car? Let's take this consideration on an easy to maintain old car; honda civic, old volvos, etc.

My argument is no, it's cheaper to maintain an old car..The tax on buying a new car alone can pay for an old car and some maintanance. New cars have a much higher insurance rate, require a down payment, 3% interest on a 20k car can give years of maintenance on an old car, and new cars still need maintenance that cost money.

I can sometimes put 200-300 a month into an old car, but I feel like you still come out ahead?

This is what GRM boils down to right? Use skill, ingenuity and a willingness to work on your own stuff to avoid the high cost of ownership and steep depreciation of newer vehicles.

If I hadn't been jammed up with a truck needing things immediately when I bought my POS TDi, I should have just got a $3k "clunker", fixed it as it needed, and driven it, I would have come out ahead money wise, even taking out a loan on that 3k and paid it off within the year. This includes doing it every year so far.

No matter what, you are going to have to pay for oil changes, brakes, and tires for either...

You're absolutely right, in fact it makes no sense from a purely logical standpoint to buy a brand new car, ever, until you reach such a level of wealth that buying a new car is less trouble than taking your car to the shop (or putting a license plate on it and losing your ability to get away with parking in handicap spaces wherever you go...see Steve Jobs)

There are some cars I'd buy new if I had the money and I admit that there are some emotional reasons involved.

In terms of used cars, there is some point down the rabbit hole where purely as a transportation appliance, you'd be better off getting a different used car. Usually around the point where you have to get replacement parts fabricated on a regular basis or change/rebuild an engine or transmission.

Sure it's logical.

But this hobby isn't always about logic. After years of spending evenings and weekends tinkering, fixing, etc, old cars, I grew tired of it.

And making a payment so I have a warranty, road side assistance, etc, is worth the extra free time I have now.

It's just priorities. I just hate the "holier than thou" attitude that many of the DIY'ers take vs people who don't want to screw with it. I'd rather spend time in the kitchen drinking a glass of bourbon and making myself a fine meal, then grubbing around under the car changing the oil.

z31maniac wrote: Sure it's logical. But this hobby isn't always about logic. After years of spending evenings and weekends tinkering, fixing, etc, old cars, I grew tired of it. And making a payment so I have a warranty, road side assistance, etc, is worth the extra free time I have now. It's just priorities. I just hate the "holier than thou" attitude that many of the DIY'ers take vs people who don't want to screw with it. I'd rather spend time in the kitchen drinking a glass of bourbon and making myself a fine meal, then grubbing around under the car changing the oil.

Right right, I was asking from a purely $$ perspective. Time = money however, so I suppose once you start equating that in, it's probably the great equalizer that says maybe it's worth buying a car and forgetting about it.

Though I live the life of leisure as a semi single young adult with no kids. I could see a few years down the road if I'm crazy enough to have kids where spending all day Saturday figuring out a 30 year old mechanic part isn't worth my time.

If we all used the exact same criteria for cars the world would be dull indeed.

The way I look at it, if a beater costs more than about 6 months worth of payments on a new car, it is time for said beater to go. I'm sort of over new cars personally. I've had my fun.

If you can fix up an old vehicle, do it.

But if you lack those skills entirely, you either gamble on a used car and pay mechanics, or you buy new.

I have come down to a philosophy of "no more than $1000 per year for a vehicle." If I buy a $15,000 car, it needs to last fifteen years. If I buy a $2000 car, it needs to last two years. If a $1000 car lasts two years, I'm ahead of the game. If ~anything~ goes wrong, ditch the car and buy another $1000 beater.

I've got maybe $7000 into my '77 C10 I've owned for almost three years, but I rebuilt the motor, trans, rear end, suspension, brakes, exhaust, cooling, and fuel. You can't buy a three year old truck for that. Mine will totally last at least another four years.

This is why I have never bought a new car for myself. The buy in is so steep that you will never recoup your initial investment even accounting for warranty work done on the vehicle. You'll still have to buy wear items, tires, oil, ect.

But this is for myself, someone who has the tools and ability to perform $3000 worth of labor for free to myself. Most people that buy new cars don't have that ability or the tools to do such things. So for them to buy a $3000 used car that suddenly needs $3000 in repairs, it's a loosing battle. I know this from personal experience when I was 16 and didn't have the tools, space or knowledge to work on my own car. It seemed anytime something broke it was always another $1000 to fix it. So my $1500 car quickly became a $4000 car before I turned 18.

Also on insurance, a lot of new cars get safety discounts that aren't available to older cars, my wife's 2012 Mazda is less to insure than my 1994 Chevy truck.. Go figure.

There are cars you can leave in the garage or have out of service for a few days when they inevitably break. There are cars that need to start, go, and stop at a moment's notice, 24/7/52.

Decide which is which, and invest accordingly.

It depends a lot on your skill level. The problem is too many people that don't know their limitations. I went to tech school. I worked on cars professionally for a decade. I have bought cars headed to the junkyard because they broke the timing belt on an interference engine or overheated the car until the head gasket blew. I had the tools and skills to fix them. Many people don't. That's fine but it's a reality that needs to be accepted.

The cars mentioned above were good examples because they were decent, relatively low mile cars. Once the catastrophic failure was fixed they had a lot of life left. You have to be able to tell the ones that still have something left to give.

If you are good at fixing cars you shouldn't have to spend every weekend working on a used car.

Duke wrote: There are cars that need to start, go, and stop at a moment's notice, 24/7/52. Decide which is which, and invest accordingly.

This is also solved by having (#cars) = (#drivers + 2)

I started buying cars with $0.10 a mile in mind. Over the life of the car if I could drive it for $0.10 a mile maintenance/depreciation, I was ok. I was extatic when I could get down to $0.05 or less before the car completely died.
I still think that way, but the buy in is higher. My truck has been under $0.10 for a while now and I bought that new. The 911 is negative due to appreciation. The R63 is going to be a money hole.
I think it's very possible to buy something like a new Honda Fit, drive it 40k miles on nothing but oil changes and lose less than $4k in depreciation.

I had a '95 Honda Civic that was a major lemon - I probably spent enough on repairs in one year to equal the cost of my $2900 Buick, and that was by far the most often broken car that I've owned. The BMW may have needed a couple thousand on repairs and maintenance too, but that was over the space of six years.

it also depends on your commute and level of "work" you do to make a living.

As a stagehand, I am one of the lucky few in Atlantic City who is not an "on call". As much as I may hate it sometimes, I get a steady 40 or more hours a week.. many are not so lucky, they need to hop from 4 hour call to 4 hour call on a daily basis. If you are working 4 hours in the morning and 4 in the late afternoon.. everyday.. when do you have time to fix a car? You also cannot afford to miss those calls, so something reliable is in order.

AH yea, I don't have a commute haha. Just need to get myself to the gym and even on a pinch I can walk! For someone who doesn't need a car, I do spend a lot of time / money on cars... But I tried not having a car for a few months and it sucked, having the freedom to get out and drive is nice.

My friend buys Honda Fits and usually ends up well on the depreciation curve. Last one he cashed and insurance cut him a check for more than he owned on it.

For me, it came down to time. I bought an older Tahoe for cash to use towing karts all over Texas. In the time I owned it, I put in new shocks (had to pay for a damaged A-Arm that I could NOT get to in the driveway), radiator and transmission. Transmission busted towing a trailer back home. Had to shell out the funds to fix it local to where is broke down. Plus, it was old and worn and the A/C was about as strong as a dog's breath. With us gone every weekend karting, a job that didn't get me home until 6:30 and life getting in the way in general, I dumped it and bought new.
In theory, the money I spent on new could have eventually restored the Tahoe over 5 years, but I simply did NOT have the time to work on it like I needed to. I actually liked the Tahoe (it was a 2 door) better than the single cab truck that replaced it, but with our travels, I needed a reliable vehicle. I intend on keeping the truck for a very long time. It should pay off in the long run.

But, necessity is the mother of invention. I (theoretically) had the funds to buy a new truck. Some don't and there were times in my life that I did not. If you have the time and funds to handle any emergencies, a used car is cheaper in the long run.

-Rob

Had this very conversation with my Wife and Son earlier this year when a blown head gasket morphed into a grenaded engine due to a dropped valve. He's had the truck for 6 years now, and it's needed a clutch and a head replacement in that time, as well as regular maintenance. Not great but not bad for 2k initial buy. In his case, it was cheaper to buy and install a good used engine than get him into something newer. Poor kid thought he could buy a WRX with little to no credit history and a thousand dollars down, Not happening (I'm not the loan co-signing type, might as well just buy the car myself if that's the case).

Luckily I have tools and can fix most automotive issues that might pop up. At least now if he wants to get something newer he can sell or trade it for a few thousand rather than junk the body for a few hundred. Buy in for new is always more expensive but sometimes it's worth it, especially if you need something reliable, you only have the one vehicle and no resources to wrench with, And you can afford it. TL:DR - The best option is the one that suits your needs that you can afford.

Interest earnings alone on the cost of a new car would pay for all of my fuel, insurance, and repairs on my DD. Eventually I'll get tired of having an old car and get something newer even though it isn't the best choice financially.

ProDarwin wrote: Interest earnings alone on the cost of a new car would pay for all of my fuel, insurance, and repairs on my DD. Eventually I'll get tired of having an old car and get something newer even though it isn't the best choice financially.

Interest rates are crazy low at the moment.... Over 5 years I will pay a grad total of $662 interest on our new car.

My wife and I just recently bought our first ever new car. We had milked the car she had been driving for years and it was showing signs of nearing end of useful life. Leaking/burning oil (fixable?), trans slipping ($$$), AC died (again...), T stat was sticking etc, it was just going to cost more $$ than the car was worth to fix. I was sad to see it go, I really was, it was a great car for us for 12 years, but it was time to move on.

Oh yeah new car buying sucks. But she got a new car, I still have my truck thats just about paid off and it will hopefully be little to no maintenance on the new one for awhile.

The "One Good Car" plan is a really good one, particularly if you are married. The peace of mind of having something that you know (as much as you can ever know with a car) you can step into it and drive across the country at a moments notice allows you to own all sorts of cheap, interesting junk.

And, No, buying a new car seldom make good sense...unless you really want a brand new car. Then it makes perfect sense.

Maybe if you can do small maintenance items yourself; wear items. And need something reliable than a simple 40k mile care would be the best bet.

I've found it's worth the investment keeping the wife in a new (or newer) car with a nice long warranty. Something goes wrong off to the dealer it goes. Car payment sucks but not having to fix stuff that goes wrong is nice and she has a reliable DD with no complaints which is worth the money. Getting to the end of the powertrain warranty on our 2011 Sorrento so it's decision time again, Keep and bank the payment or trade/sell towards a 2017. Car's in great shape though so for now it's wait and see.

Streetwiseguy wrote: The "One Good Car" plan is a really good one, particularly if you are married. The peace of mind of having something that you know (as much as you can ever know with a car) you can step into it and drive across the country at a moments notice allows you to own all sorts of cheap, interesting junk. And, No, buying a new car seldom make good sense...unless you really want a brand new car. Then it makes perfect sense.

My point exactly, Streetwise guy beat me to it!

As you get older and your time scarcer, it makes more sense to get a new or newer car. These days, I find that just pulling the front shocks on the Miata is taking like 6 months. There simply isn't time. At that point, what is your time worth? When I was younger with nothing to do in between races and working, I had plenty of time to work on my "fleet" of Italian cars, now simply looking at an Alfa gives me visions of it on jack stands in the garage for years on end. Life gets complicated, newer helps you live it sometimes.