Last time I looked at T5s the WC one for the was at 300ft-lbs? Something like that? I saw something the other day about more recent ones being rated as high as 330ft-lbs, but I couldn't find anything that broke down what models they were in, what years, etc etc. Closest I saw was "Modern Mustangs are rated at 330ft-lbs"
Anyone have a chart that breaks down years and strengths?
I don't have a chart.
The newest t5wc are probably the 1998 through 2002 camaro v6.
I believe mustangs already changed over to the tremec tr3540 or something like that.
Interestingly, the camaro Trans I mentioned above use the Ford t5 bolt pattern with a metric gm bellhousing.
It's what I run in my 3.9 powered rx8.
They shift like a truck. They don't hold up terribly well to drag launches. They are cheap.
P.s. there are all sorts of upgrade parts to help keep them together. The big issue is shaft and countershaft separation causing the gears to have less depth of mess and stripping the gears.
They make stronger gears and stronger / stiffer shafts.
https://www.moderndriveline.com/the-many-different-faces-of-the-t5/
Torque ratings are taken with grains of salt. Enough discussion in the above article to read between the lines: rated strength is directly related to gearing, not early or late versions. 2.95:1 gear set strongest, 4.03:1 weakest.
There are ratings by ID tag on this list
What's the application you're thinking of? Vehicle weight, tire stickiness, all-out drag launches vs. regular starts will all play into how long a T5 will last almost as much as engine torque.
There are other similar transmissions that came after the T5, some with higher ratings like the T-3650 (360 lb-ft). And then there's the TKO 500/600, which have much more capacity, but are more expensive. T45s can be made to withstand higher power, but hard parts are getting thin on the ground so I wouldn't recommend one if parts availability is a concern.
Edited content below from one of my webpages, just wanted to point out that clutch selection is going to be a big factor in the OP's T5 life expectancy...
Engine torque is something most car guys think they understand, so giving them torque ratings to compare while clutch shopping preemptively answers a lot of questions. A clutch manufacturers torque rating is just a quick/dirty way for the typical aftermarket clutch buying customer to feel assured that the clutch they buy isn't going to slip against the torque their engine is capable of. From the perspective of the aftermarket clutch manufacturer, if the clutch breaks something else downstream it's not their problem, at least the customer won't come back to them complaining about a weak clutch. In reality, choosing a clutch is more complicated than just engine torque. To keep your stick shift drivetrain alive, it's important to pay attention to what happens inside the bellhousing.
The T5 5spd serves as a good real-world example. It was an OE transmission for both GM and Ford, and the 2.95 gearsets for both versions are nearly identical as far as case/gear strength. But the GM version of the 2.95 V8 T5 has a reputation as being weak, while it's pretty common to see Ford version of the 2.95 V8 T5 running 10's on the dragstrip with slicks. The difference is the clutches that are commonly used with each version. The GM T5 guys almost always go to the aftermarket and end up with around 2800-2900lbs of clutch clamp from a 10.5" diaphragm, while the go-to clutch for the Ford T5 guys is the Ford Motorsport "King Cobra" 10.5" diaphragm which has 2124lbs of clamp.
The lesson to be learned is that installing more clutch clamp pressure than you need is a step in the wrong direction. Too much will pull inertia out of the engine's rotating assy at an excessive rate, which in-turn leads to either bog/spin problems or broken parts. Excessive clamp pressure also narrows the sweet spot for clutch modulation, leading the clutch to act more like an on/off switch during casual driving.
The purpose of optimizing clutch clamp pressure in a street/strip application is not so much to protect the rest of the drivetrain from impacts, that happy side effect is just a BONUS! The real purpose is to make the car quicker by improving traction and optimizing your engine's power production. While it may be counter-intuitive, a softer hit on the drivetrain CAN make your car quicker!
How Much Clutch Clamp Pressure Do You Actually Need?
The typical aftermarket GM/Mopar pattern 10.5" diaphragm PP installed out of the box has about 2800lbs of clamp. It's hard to find anything less in the aftermarket, so let's see what 2800lbs of clamp gets you with different types of clutch discs....
...With an organic disc, 2800lbs is ballpark for an engine with around 500ftlbs of torque.
...With a typical dual friction disc, 2800lbs is ballpark for an engine with around 655ftlbs of torque.
...With a typical iron puck disc, 2800lbs is ballpark for an engine with around 810ftlbs of torque.
...With a cerametallic puck disc, 2800lbs is ballpark for an engine with around 820ftlbs of torque.
Let's say your engine puts out 500ftlbs, how much clamp would you then need for a typical dual friction disc? For that you can calculate a percentage of the above ratings. The above says 2800lbs of clamp on a dual friction disc is ballpark for 655ftlbs. If you divide 500 by 655, you get .76 which means you would need 76% of 2800lbs or 2800 x .76 = 2128. In other words, a 500ftlb engine needs about 2128lbs of ballpark clamp on a 10.5" dual friction disc. Good luck finding that in the aftermarket.
If you do find yourself in a situation with excessive clutch clamp pressure for the application, devices like my ClutchTamer and Hitmaster products can soften the hit of an overkill clutch to suit the application, without giving up any of that overkill clutch's overall torque holding capacity. You end up with similar overall performance to a "slipper clutch" from an off the shelf diaphragm, without all the inside-the-can clutch tuning hassles. Kind of like "getting your cake and eating it too" for a street/strip guy.
Grant
You can always buy a gforce t5 with straight cut gears, dog rings, and upgraded cases and output shaft. I mean it'll hold a bunch of 600/600 slick launches as long as you have a soft clutch.
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) said:What's the application you're thinking of? Vehicle weight, tire stickiness, all-out drag launches vs. regular starts will all play into how long a T5 will last almost as much as engine torque.
Potential Challenge vehicle. Post-Challenge it'd be a cruiser/sometimes Auto-x play toy. Probably wouldn't be super sticky tires as I don't do the drag thing too much.
Trying my best to avoid an auto.
In reply to Ranger50 :
They still make T5 gearsets?
To answer the question: T5s were available in Mustangs from 1979 all the way until 2010. We won't talk about the versions prior to 1985 since they werent "world class" and had a lower torque rating. From 85-93 you could find world class versions in v8 mustangs. These are usually beat to hell and back because people abused them. 94-95 v8s also had them, albeit with a longer input shaft due to chassis redesign.
96-2004 3.8L v6 Mustangs also came with a world class T5(also the long input shaft version). Though to use them behind a SBF you need either the 94-95 v8 bellhousing or alternatively the v6 bellhousing with an 80s Ford truck 164 tooth flywheel(which is heavier than the 157, but allows the use of larger diameter clutch). Another alternative method would be to use a 79-84 v8 bellhousing with a spacer plate between the trans and the bellhousing to account for the extra input shaft length.
All that is fairly well known, but the 2005-2010 4.0L v6 Mustang also had a T5 world class transmission. Unlike the earlier versions of the T5 though, this one was set up from the factory with a remote-shifter setup:
You can see in this pic that the old shifter area is enclosed and has a lead-in for a remote shifter rod. I do not know the input shaft length of this version though so I could not tell you which bellhousing would be needed. It is worth noting though that the 4.0L version does use a hydraulic TOB though for clutch actuation. I suppose its possible the 4.0L could have the same bolt pattern as a SBF but I haven't ever researched it....but the bellhousing being designed to use an internal slave from the factory makes it appealing as a base to start from if you wanted to do a frankenstein bellhousing by welding 2 bells together. Also different is that this version also does not use a slip yoke. Like the later MT82 transmissions, this uses a flange so the slip yoke needs to be built into the driveshaft instead. Still, due to the remote-shifter and hydraulic slave it holds some appeal for certain swaps.
Pick a World Class model over a T5z. I've had both, and the T5z was quick to make noise in 3rd gear at around 1000 miles on a 340-horse Ferd 302. 'Twas not impressive. The 330 horsepower rating is optimistic for any kind of enthusiastic driving.
I got amazing utility and performance from a beat-to-death WC T5 (bolted to a stock early-'90s 5.0) that was missing an ear . . .
rustomatic said:Pick a World Class model over a T5z. I've had both, and the T5z was quick to make noise in 3rd gear at around 1000 miles on a 340-horse Ferd 302. 'Twas not impressive. The 330 horsepower rating is optimistic for any kind of enthusiastic driving.
I got amazing utility and performance from a beat-to-death WC T5 (bolted to a stock early-'90s 5.0) that was missing an ear . . .
In reality the T5 is poor transmission choice anyway. Its an evolution of the SROD transmission. Which was a weak 3 speed transmission with "4th" gear as an overdrive gear. Honestly, these days I would take a T4 over a T5 100% of the time. It is a far stronger transmission and at worst you lose out on an overdrive gear. Since I don't drive on the interstate anymore the loss of an overdrive gear is no big loss. If my goal were a strong transmission but I had to have an overdrive gear for some reason, I would still choose the T4, then I would use an in-line electronic overdrive unit like Gearvendors offers. Expensive? Sure...but available in all kinds of street or racing applications
More importantly though, its there when you need it an not when you don't. A 4 speed manual+electronic overdrive has always made more sense to me(when the units are strong enough) than a 5 or 6 speed overdrive transmission. Yes, I currently use a 6 speed transmission in my car...but its a joke and a waste. I use gears 2-5(whose ratios are very close to a toploader T4 1-4) and ignore 1 and 6 for the most part...so I could very well live with a toploader T4 and not miss the other 2 gears at all.
In reply to Wicked93gs :
The remote shifter is interesting and potentially useful for my case. I wonder if the tailshaft containing that provision can be swapped to a different one.
The bellhousing for that one is useless to me I think
Mr_Asa said:dj06482 (Forum Supporter) said:What's the application you're thinking of? Vehicle weight, tire stickiness, all-out drag launches vs. regular starts will all play into how long a T5 will last almost as much as engine torque.
Potential Challenge vehicle. Post-Challenge it'd be a cruiser/sometimes Auto-x play toy. Probably wouldn't be super sticky tires as I don't do the drag thing too much.
Trying my best to avoid an auto.
The T5 is a great option for a Challenge car scenario, as they're a great value and can hold up well if you don't abuse them. Any of the other alternatives I mentioned will likely put you well out of Challenge Car territory. And if anything goes wrong, they're cheap to replace.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
I would say most likely yes, it is still a T5 after all. The basic case is likely to be the same. You can mix and match all kinds of T5 parts. I would say its almost certainly the case if the 5th gear ratio is the same as the other version. I know you can swap input shafts if the 1st gear ratio is the same, don't know if the output shaft is limited in that same way, but I would assume so.
In reply to Wicked93gs :
There's an amazing lack of swappability in the T5 world. I have a V8 Ford T5 that I would like to use a Chevy input shaft on because it is waaaaay easier to find clutches to fit Chevy than Ford. But, Chevy never made a world class T5 with this number of teeth, and you can't mix and match WC and non WC parts, and you can't put NWC parts in a WC case, and it looks like it may be cheaper to just scrap the trans and buy a Chevy trans than it is to buy a Ford clutch, but I need a Ford trans to use this bellhousing, and we go around and around here...
The T5 2.95 gearsets are the strongest, that's because the ratio between it's input shaft and front cluster gear has the least amount of torque multiplication of all the T5 gearsets. Less multiplication at the front of the box means less stress on the actual 1st/2nd/3rd gears themselves.
I can tell you from experience that a Saginaw 4spd is generally a step up strengthwise over the T5, and possibly cheaper as well which is good for a challenge project. Available Saginaw 1st gear ratios were 3.50, 3.11, 2.84, 2.54. Much like the T5, the lower ratio 2.54 ratio Saginaw gearset will be stronger than the 3.50 gearset. It might be interesting to note that all these Saginaw 3 and 4spds used the same actual 1st gear with 29 teeth (15t on the cluster gear), the difference in overall 1st gear ratios was at the front of the box between the input shaft and front cluster gear. Downside is it doesn't shift as good as the lighter T5.
Grant
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