HPDE Brake Questions

So after much thought about buying a track rat, I have decided that it really doesn't make a lot of sense for me right now due to storage, time, cost issues etc. Anyways I've decided I still want to do some HPDE's with my daily driver and although I plan on being careful I plan on getting insurance for the events.

Anyways, I have searched the forums a bit but haven't found exactly what I want.

When going to the track with the street car, I know that I would certainly need different pads for the car. My question is do most people just drive to the track and swap pads or do you swap pads and rotors that have already been bedded in? It seems to me that it might be important to bed the pads in on rotors that they specifically match? Or do you maybe just scuff up the rotors with some sandpaper or emery cloth

If you can live with the squeal and dust during regular use, you could always keep the pads on.

Having a spare set of pads is probably ok. Just bed them in before running.

That's true, I don't know how aggressive of a pad I would use. I definitely think it would be important to have them properly bedded in.

I think it also depends on the car and track. Down here, for example, Roebling is easier on brakes than Sebring.

Agreed, Sebring is tough on brakes. I was swapping pads/rotors for HPDE track days. I'd crystalize a set of stock rotors on a weekend at Sebring or Road Atlanta. But I only went a few times a year so I put up with it and kept switching. Now installing 14" Baers all around and will use them on street and track but maybe only swap pads.

I like to swap pads before I go. That way if anything goes wrong (like I forget a tool) I'm home and can deal with it.

Hawk DTC60s are a nice pad that is easy enough on rotors to drive to the track and beat on all weekend.

Change your brake fluid before you go. Nothing will ruin a day faster than boiling brake fluid.

How much track experience do you have? If this is your 1st or 2nd time out I would not worry about pads and just make sure that the systems are in good shape. Bring a spare set of pads or 2 and break fluid to bleed the system. I found that the better driver I became the less brakes I needed and when you do need them it is for short but very hard stopping. Trail braking and all the other things are neat and I can do them but since we did mostly endurance racing and keeping the car running was far more important than getting every last 1/10th out of the car I got away from really aggressive use of the brakes. Don't get me wrong having a good set of porterfield's or cool carbons on the car was great but learn to use them as little as possible. It makes you faster and is much easier on equipment.

Light car + performance pads + DOT5.1 + brake vent system = no worries. So when you do get a track car, keep that in mind.

Now for your Mustang, I'll say +1 for living with performance pads on the street (and of course get good fluid - DOT5 or DOT5.1, whichever is compatible). And again, get a brake vent system, it really helps with the heat without adding any meaningful amount of unsprung weight and it's fairly cheap.

It also depends on which pads you choose. Some are compatible (can share rotors with street pads), some (like my carbotechs) cannot.

I just run XP8s all the time. Dusty, but they work fine on the street (in Florida) and great on the track.

I check them before each event, replace fronts every 6 events or so. A lot less work that way. The relative amount of wear ($$ vs std pads) on the street is minimal.

Depends on car and brake pad choice.

I just leave the XP10 f, XP 8 r on my Miata at all times. But I don't DD the car, only occasional nice weather and to and from the track. Mine also has the bigger sport with a stock '90 engine.

You DO NOT want to use DOT 5 brake fluid in anything but a show car. It is silicon based and hydrophobic so it won't absorb moister that might be in the system.

For brake fluid, I've run Wilwood 570, or ATE SuperBlue without any issues. Get a racing brake fluid that stands up to high temperatures. I know Ford used to have a high temp brake fluid for Grand Marquis and town cars because people would rest their left foot on the brake constantly. It was my budget racing brake fluid when I started SpecMiata. For pads, I've run Carbotech XP12 front, XP10 rear on my RX-8 on the street. Dusty and noisy, but they work fine. Awesome on the track when up to temperature.

EDIT: I am assuming the Mustang in your profile will be the HPDE car. I have driven a student's GT with the normal brakes (not Brembo) at Grattan (120 mph on the front straight into a hard right turn). The brakes were the weak point of the car, but this one did not have track pads. Everything else was up to the task.

AtticusTurbo27 wrote: You DO NOT want to use DOT 5 brake fluid in anything but a show car. It is silicon based and hydrophobic so it won't absorb moister that might be in the system.

This is true but if you have a DOT5 brake system then you don't really have a choice. I assume the Mustang is DOT3/4/5.1

1manwolfpack wrote: although I plan on being careful I plan on getting insurance for the events.

Keep in mind, it may not always be your fault.......also the last time I spoke with Lockton Affinity, the deductible was $5k.

So just putting it in a tire wall will still fall on you, and even if you total it. You will be out AT LEAST $5k.

SO think about if you're willing to eat $5k along with losing the car.

GameboyRMH wrote: Light car + performance pads + DOT5.1 + brake vent system = no worries. So when you do get a track car, keep that in mind. Now for your Mustang, I'll say +1 for living with performance pads on the street (and of course get good fluid - DOT5 or DOT5.1, whichever is compatible). And again, get a brake vent system, it really helps with the heat without adding any meaningful amount of unsprung weight and it's fairly cheap.

GameboyRMH wrote:

AtticusTurbo27 wrote: You DO NOT want to use DOT 5 brake fluid in anything but a show car. It is silicon based and hydrophobic so it won't absorb moister that might be in the system.

This is true but if you have a DOT5 brake system then you don't really have a choice. I assume the Mustang is DOT3/4/5.1

Yes since DOT 5 isn't comparable with ABS systems and is like I said only used in antiques I wouldn't call it a "good fluid" if you have a dot 5 brake system you probably shouldn't track it.

Also, 5.1 is pretty uncommon in the US, so A decent DOT 4 is what you would want to look for. I'm using Torque RT700 currently and seems to hold up well on my heavy WRX with stock calipers and no brake vents currently. Might want something similar for a mustang.

A good bet for finding DOT5.1 is motorcycle shops, a lot of the new euro bikes require it.

Lots of good responses!

I see there are a lot of "it depends" answers . I guess I should expect that for anything relating to cars.

The mustang is the car that I would be using. Right now I have DOT3 but I was thinking DOT4 would be appropriate for the track. My FSAE team always used Superblue so I figured that would be a good place to start. Also my V6 is the base model so I don't have ABS.

z31maniac: I will have to get in touch with Lockton Affinity and see how everything works out. Long story short, I have been stashing money for a track toy/weekend warrior, but I don't think it makes much sense to buy it right now.

dean1484: I understand I definitely won't be driving 10/10ths in HPDE particuarly in HPDE 1 or 2. I don't have a lot of experience, but I've done a little autocross in both street cars and FSAE, some karting, and a 1 day school with Skip Barber down at Road Atlanta.

Also, how quickly do most people move up through the levels of HPDE?

FYI, I just checked Lockton Affinity's website. It says that they have a 5% deductible with a minimum of $1500.

I have heard they are pretty good to deal with so I will give them a call before I decide to go out and get all of the details.

1manwolfpack wrote: Also, how quickly do most people move up through the levels of HPDE?

mostly it'll depend on what your instructor says ... how you handle yourself on track, how you listen to your instructor, how aware you are about other cars around ... etc ... after a couple of successful DE's then talk it over with your instructor and get their views ... if they ok you, then go to the event director and request a check ride to the next level ( sometimes your instructor can make the recommendation to move up without any other check ride )