Hyundai Gensis

kanaric wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Gameboy nailed it. If it had to be a V6, I'd still pick a 370Z over it.

Doesn't what he said apply even more to the 370z? Plus the 370z, for the equivalently priced trim of the rspec v6, is more money, doesn't come with a LSD, has altima brakes, etc. For a 370z you need at least the sport unless you want an automatic and you are female and that car is about $5k more.

Essentially, you're right.

370Z is lighter and I love the styling. The Genesis is '04 GTO bland, to me at least.

I've owned 17-ish cars. Only once have I owned a car over 3000lbs, and I probably won't make that mistake again.

In summary: it's too huge and fat. It's like a "corn fed" BRZ. Keep the 2.0T motor, but scale the car down to 7/8ths and I'd be interested.

Its odd to see all the 370 comparisons. The genesis has an 11 INCH LONGER WHEELBASE, is 15.1 inches longer overall, 1 inch wider and 3 inches higher.

Funny everyone says its to big , that's the main reason it will probably be my next car. I would love a brz, but I'd have to cut the legs off of my kids to ever get them in the thing.

Based upon my admittedly limited firsthand experience with Hyundai (bought new Sonata, it sucked), I'd say that Hyundai is at it's best making economy cars. The higher up the price ladder you go, the more Hyundai's warts begin to show. By the time you get to Genesis territory, a buyer's expectations are going to be fairly high. Hyundai's product can not live up to those expectations.

kanaric wrote: All that said if the Hyundai was lighter I would buy it. It's just that the whole 350/370z type car is behind right now. They need to become lighter, like a BRZ, and come with these V6 engines or they need to step up to a V8.

Between the mandated safety equipment and the "expected" features and equipment (including non-mandated safety equipment) that buyers now want/expect, I don't really see lighter happening in anything other than entry level low priced vehicles.

Secretariata wrote: Between the mandated safety equipment and the "expected" features and equipment (including non-mandated safety equipment) that buyers now want/expect, I don't really see lighter happening in anything other than entry level low priced vehicles.

This be truth!

Super light... no. Light? Yes. BRZ is a perfect example of what can be done.

1988RedT2 wrote: By the time you get to Genesis territory, a buyer's expectations are going to be fairly high. Hyundai's product can not live up to those expectations.

A hyundai can't live up to a $25k expectations? lolwut?

This thread is ridiculous, I honestly expect better from the GRM forum. I think I understand a little how alphadriver feels sometimes.

A brz/frs is slower than a Genesis. Gets worse mpg. And imo, is not as comfortable (and certainly isn't as dd friendly). The cars shouldn't be compared on pricepoint, and if they are, it should be noticed they are very different cars. The Genesis is like a Supra. The FRS like a corolla. And the mustang is still a muscle car, and I personally would not be caught dead in a v6 one :p

And the 370z shouldnt even be a part of this discussion, its in another league.

the Problems with the Genesis are twofold:

1. It is a Hyundai. Many many many people cannot get over the Excel that ended production 20 years ago. Modern Hyundais (post 2000) are -much- better than before and probably better than many of their contemporaries

2. Timing. The Genesis was released just as the Domestics brought out some excellent v6s, Toyota/Subaru brought out their sports cars, and exectations are at all time highs

HiTempguy wrote:

1988RedT2 wrote: By the time you get to Genesis territory, a buyer's expectations are going to be fairly high. Hyundai's product can not live up to those expectations.

A brz/frs is slower than a Genesis. Gets worse mpg. And imo, is not as comfortable (and certainly isn't as dd friendly). The cars shouldn't be compared on pricepoint, and if they are, it should be noticed they are very different cars.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/genesis/coupe http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/brz

The BRZ is rated 1mpg higher than the 2.0t, 3mpg better than the 3.8, and real-world is significantly better than both. Also the BRZ is leagues faster on the autocross course.

I agree they are very different cars. From a DD standpoint I don't see how the Genesis is any better.

HiTempguy wrote:

1988RedT2 wrote: By the time you get to Genesis territory, a buyer's expectations are going to be fairly high. Hyundai's product can not live up to those expectations.

A hyundai can't live up to a $25k expectations? lolwut?

Point being that Hyundai is, despite much improvement in the past 20-odd years, still a second-rate car company. It's easier to forgive shoddy workmanship in an economy car.

I would not call Hyundai second rate. They are right up there with Honda and Toyota in reliability

mad_machine wrote: I would not call Hyundai second rate. They are right up there with Honda and Toyota in reliability

May I suggest that you take a chunk of your hard-earned money and put it where your mouth is, so to speak. I have never owned any other new vehicle that rode the tow truck three times (or was it four?) in the first year of ownership. So that's reliable?

Actually, my assessment of second-rate wasn't based on reliability. The fit and finish of the product, particularly the interiors, squeaks, and rattles earned that title.

Are they much improved? Undoubtedly, and I was willing to bet the price of a new Sonata Limited 2.0T that they were as good as a Toyota or a Honda, but I lost that bet. Calling them second-rate is giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I had a 1999 Hyundai tiburon that I bought new. It only rode the towtruck once.. and that was to the junkyard after an accident totalled it.. and even with a ripped up bumper, a pin hole in the oilpan, and a ripped out radiator.. it still got me home.

When it died, it had 147,000 miles

1988RedT2 wrote:

mad_machine wrote: I would not call Hyundai second rate. They are right up there with Honda and Toyota in reliability

May I suggest that you take a chunk of your hard-earned money and put it where your mouth is, so to speak. I have never owned any other new vehicle that rode the tow truck three times (or was it four?) in the first year of ownership. So that's reliable? Actually, my assessment of second-rate wasn't based on reliability. The fit and finish of the product, particularly the interiors, squeaks, and rattles earned that title. Are they much improved? Undoubtedly, and I was willing to bet the price of a new Sonata Limited 2.0T that they were as good as a Toyota or a Honda, but I lost that bet. Calling them second-rate is giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I did. 1st Hyundai in the family was a 2000 Elantra, bought in 01 used. Former program car. SWMBO drove it for a year then handed it to eldest daughter who tried to kill it. She didn't like driving a 4-door mommy car. Once went about 8,000 miles between oil change, oil came out in chunks. Always worked. She traded it in at well over 100,000 miles for a 04 Tiburon GT. She didn't take any better care of that either. Was in 3 accidents before she learned to take a little better care of it. She traded it in with over 160,000 miles for a 2011 Tuscan when she became a mommy. So that's 3 Hyundai's. The 4th is SWMBO's 2010 Sonata LE V6. A Korean car for my Korean wife. A few of hew Korean friends have also had good luck with Hyundai's so she decided to try them out. She wouldn't touch anything from Korea before Hyundai's. She likes the Sonata better than the Camry she had before. Not really a consideration for a sporty car but real good, reliable grocery getter for the money. I don't know anyone that has complained about their Hyundai or had problems. Granted, the fit & finish isn't BMW quality or even Honda quality but they are nowhere near the cost of one either.

right.. and it does not pretend to be a BMW or a Honda.. but it is inching up there and making the big dogs more than a little nervous

Secretariata wrote:

kanaric wrote: All that said if the Hyundai was lighter I would buy it. It's just that the whole 350/370z type car is behind right now. They need to become lighter, like a BRZ, and come with these V6 engines or they need to step up to a V8.

Between the mandated safety equipment and the "expected" features and equipment (including non-mandated safety equipment) that buyers now want/expect, I don't really see lighter happening in anything other than entry level low priced vehicles.

Well the idea or rumors for a bit now was that the next Z is going to be different and lighter, especially since the 370Z isn't selling well at all right now.

1988RedT2 wrote:

mad_machine wrote: I would not call Hyundai second rate. They are right up there with Honda and Toyota in reliability

May I suggest that you take a chunk of your hard-earned money and put it where your mouth is, so to speak. I have never owned any other new vehicle that rode the tow truck three times (or was it four?) in the first year of ownership. So that's reliable? Actually, my assessment of second-rate wasn't based on reliability. The fit and finish of the product, particularly the interiors, squeaks, and rattles earned that title. Are they much improved? Undoubtedly, and I was willing to bet the price of a new Sonata Limited 2.0T that they were as good as a Toyota or a Honda, but I lost that bet. Calling them second-rate is giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I have put my money where my mouth is, as well as several friends. I continue to do so. In the 8 Hy/Kia in the family/friend circle only one has ever had to be towed in 11 years of driving/ownership. It had a crank sensor die at ~180k miles.

With that said, I've seen the same Accord towed in 4 times in the same month for different things. That would tell me that Honda is less than a second rate car company. Even more so if you consider the number of open recalls right now they have, their apparent inability to design an automatic transmission or power steering system, or a bluetooth unit that doesn't kill the battery.

ProDarwin wrote: I agree they are very different cars. From a DD standpoint I don't see how the Genesis is any better.

For a guy of my size and build, the Gen Coupe is much better. I feel cramped and claustrophobic in the Frisbee. Not so much on hte GC.

1988RedT2 wrote:

mad_machine wrote: I would not call Hyundai second rate. They are right up there with Honda and Toyota in reliability

May I suggest that you take a chunk of your hard-earned money and put it where your mouth is, so to speak.

I did. The ex-SWMBO had TWO different Tiburon's. If I remember correctly a 2001 and a 2007. We leased the 2001 for 5 years (what a mistake) & in that 5 years I think I put tires on it and a battery, besides fluid changes. And we drove the E36 M3 out of that thing.

We decided not to buy the thing after 5 years because they wanted almost as much as we would have paid in the beginning of the lease as new (again what a mistake), so we turned it in. Went to a Hyundai dealer in 2006 or 7, picked out another. They asked if she wanted to drive it, she said no need. As long as it's red and a 5sp she's good.

I only saw that one for maybe 2 years before we split & she ended up getting it repossessed. But in it's life I loved that thing & debated one of my own, but by the time I could afford a car payment of my own it was out of production & I knew nothing about this Genesis thing I saw on the streets.

iadr wrote: I don't know what you had- a 2009-ish Sonata from what you imply?

2011 Sonata Limited with 2.0 TGDI engine. It was a rolling E36 M3box from day one. Must have been a lemon based on all the Hyundai love here, but they lost me. You only get one chance to make a first impression.

1988RedT2 wrote:

iadr wrote: I don't know what you had- a 2009-ish Sonata from what you imply?

2011 Sonata Limited with 2.0 TGDI engine. It was a rolling E36 M3box from day one. Must have been a lemon based on all the Hyundai love here, but they lost me. You only get one chance to make a first impression.

I'd say yours was a lemon. I know two different people with them (techincally ones an Optima SX, but same car) and only one has had a warranty repair and that was some stock bov thingy that stuck.

In reply to Bobzilla:

Our neigbors to the other side (who treat everything they own like E36 M3) bought a new Sonata last year (12 model?) and they haven't managed to break it/destroy it yet. That's saying a lot of good things to me! I'd buy a Hyundai based off of Aussie's Elantra thread here, honestly.

Technically I've become a 2-Kia family, but its the same E36 M3. Be like buying a Buick instead of a Chevy. I've been extremely pleased with them to date, but I'm not a fanboi. If someone builds somethign that suits my needs, is good quality and the right price, I will be glad to try it.

So far, the Koreans are doing that pretty good IMO.