In reply to z31maniac :
That's not free. That's free of interest. You still have to pay the bills.
My comment was sarcastic. Frenchy has been talking for years about "free solar", but is actually referring to debt on his house. That's not free.
In reply to z31maniac :
That's not free. That's free of interest. You still have to pay the bills.
My comment was sarcastic. Frenchy has been talking for years about "free solar", but is actually referring to debt on his house. That's not free.
In reply to frenchyd :
The EV6 is an electric car from Kia.
In reply to Toyman! :
aligned.. If the cost was low enough, I'd do it.. but money don't grow old if you spend it..
Fueled by Caffeine said:So here's the discussion I had with a colleague recently.
Them. You should get a rivian.
me: they are cool, but expensive and the back seat isn't wide enough.
them: but you'll love electric.
me: probablythem: so why not buy one
me: because I can buy three of the 2019 f150's I just bought for the price of an average Rivian. ( I bought an f150 for 30kish recently)
them: But the maint is cheaper
me: it is. But not 60k cheaper.
and that's it in a nutshell.
So 4 year old used trucks are cheaper than new trucks?
SV reX said:In reply to z31maniac :
That's not free. That's free of interest. You still have to pay the bills.
My comment was sarcastic. Frenchy has been talking for years about "free solar", but is actually referring to debt on his house. That's not free.
My bad on that one.
We all know he isn't fond of factual information.
In reply to mattm :
Yes, you are right. That's not an apples to apples comparison. I don't think it was supposed to be.
I think Dyntorace's point was the used F150 meets his needs, and there are no comparable used electric trucks. So, he'd have to spend $60K more JUST to drive a new electric, when the used gas burner is perfectly fine for his needs.
bobzilla said:Yesterday browsing Kia's website I learned of something new :
kias new EV9. 7 passenger suv, 300 miles of range. Heat pump hvac to help the batteries in cold climates and 5k lb towing capacity. Of course, not eligible for any rebates because of some silly politicians but it looks like hy/Kia really have their E36 M3 together.
They really do, if I were buying a new car now there's a good chance it would be an EV6 or Ioniq.
In reply to frenchyd :
It's a basic contractor's lien.
Solar panels are bolted to the house, but they are not an essential part of the house. They are basically an after-market option.
Lenders don't want to loan money on the panels. They don't have the same intrinsic long term value as the real estate, and they are a high cost item. $30,000 worth of solar panels DO NOT add $30,000 worth of value to the house (for the life of the loan).
So, you end up with a contractor's lien on your property. No big deal until you go to sell it. Your mortgage lender has no liability, and the equity in the house has served as collateral for 2nd mortgage (with contractor's lien). But the NEW lender will have the liability of the (used) panels being used for collateral for the new loan.
They don't want that liability. So, the old loan (secured by a contractor's lien) has to be paid off before the closing can happen.
It's the same thing that would happen if you got an equity loan for a very expensive kitchen that was more than the house was worth. That 2nd mortgage would have to be paid off before closing.
I still don't get it. They are advertising FREE solar panels. That's what their ads say. That's what they tell me on the phone.
Why would a contractor have a lien against my property for something that is FREE. Why is there a contractor involved? Can't I just go to the warehouse and pick up my FREE solar panels and install them myself.
They wouldn't lie to me. Would they?
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
Why do they even need "installed"? If they make things for free shouldn't even need to install them right?
This thread defines insanity.
bobzilla said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
Why do they even need "installed"? If they make things for free shouldn't even need to install them right?
That doesn't even make sense or answer my question.
Is this free solar panel thing they keep calling me about some kind of scam?
Or is there actually somebody handing out free solar panels for whatever reason?
bobzilla said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
Why do they even need "installed"? If they make things for free shouldn't even need to install them right?
You are aware, I hope. That panels are bolted on the roof so they don't blow off in high winds. That there are electrical wires going into your house to be connected at the electric panel.
frenchyd said:bobzilla said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
Why do they even need "installed"? If they make things for free shouldn't even need to install them right?
You are aware, I hope. That panels are bolted on the roof so they don't blow off in high winds. That there are electrical wires going into your house to be connected at the electric panel.
Yeah. I have a ladder and tools. I can do that.
So where are all these free solar panels I keep hearing about?
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:bobzilla said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
Why do they even need "installed"? If they make things for free shouldn't even need to install them right?
That doesn't even make sense or answer my question.
Is this free solar panel thing they keep calling me about some kind of scam?
Or is there actually somebody handing out free solar panels for whatever reason?
Depends on what state you live in. Check with your local electric utility.
No they aren't handing out panels they are bolting them to your roof. Then connecting them to your electric panel.
You can assume the deal is profitable for someone. While I would like to know what the panels cost and how much labor is. I doubt anyone will tell me exactly what the profit is.
Do find out what brand panels are used and how those compare to the best panels out there.
There is some area differences. Apparently high heat reduces a panels conversion rate but a couple of the top rated panels are very good at dealing with high heat at a cost of more degradation over time. ( all the top ones still have a 30 + year life).
frenchyd said:Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:bobzilla said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
Why do they even need "installed"? If they make things for free shouldn't even need to install them right?
That doesn't even make sense or answer my question.
Is this free solar panel thing they keep calling me about some kind of scam?
Or is there actually somebody handing out free solar panels for whatever reason?
Depends on what state you live in. Check with your local electric utility.
No they aren't handing out panels they are bolting them to your roof. Then connecting them to your electric panel.
You can assume the deal is profitable for someone. While I would like to know what the panels cost and how much labor is. I doubt anyone will tell me exactly what the profit is.
Do find out what brand panels are used and how those compare to the best panels out there.
There is some area differences. Apparently high heat reduces a panels conversion rate but a couple of the top rated panels are very good at dealing with high heat at a cost of more degradation over time. ( all the top ones still have a 30 + year life).
I still don't get it. How can anybody profit from bolting solar panels on my roof for free? There has to be a catch.
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:bobzilla said:Yesterday browsing Kia's website I learned of something new :
kias new EV9. 7 passenger suv, 300 miles of range. Heat pump hvac to help the batteries in cold climates and 5k lb towing capacity. Of course, not eligible for any rebates because of some silly politicians but it looks like hy/Kia really have their E36 M3 together.
They really do, if I were buying a new car now there's a good chance it would be an EV6 or Ioniq.
Those politicians are trying to be careful with your tax dollars.
The prime requirement is the vehicles are American made with "American" batteries.
That's a little snaky because the Lithium comes from American companies in South America or Australia.
Those cars, Ionia or EV 6 and batteries are made in China. And we aren't interested in helping them.
As far as batteries and cold weather are concerned Tesla has started to use batteries that aren't affected in cold weather as much because of the adhesive used. The article I read listed just exactly how much better they were but Other than really significant I don't remember the numbers.
I could use epoxy instead of bolting the free panels on my roof. I think that would work.
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
Tell your salesman that you have a truck, and ask him where you should pick up your free panels.
You'll learn. They aren't free. It's a LIE.
It's a lie that certain people on this forum like to perpetuate.
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
The way it works is the solar company sells you the panels and finances them to you. You pay $xxx monthly.
The power generated by the panels reduces your power bill by a similar or slightly larger amount.
So, technically the panels don't cost you anything but you do have to pay for them.
See the above graphic of a shell game.
Contrary to some above posts, the payoff in the state of MN is 13-19 years with most systems being paid off in 16. Most panels fall off in efficiency in 20-25 years so you will get 5-10 years of return on your investment after paying for the panels for 16 years. Conviently most roof systems are also good for 20-25 years so the panels will need to come down about that time anyway assuming they were installed on a new roof.
I'm not saying they aren't worth it, but I am saying that the deal isn't as good as some make it out to be. If you plan to sell your house in the next 5-10 years be very careful. There have been more than a few real estate sales that have fallen apart due to roof-mounted solar. Either the buyers didn't want it, couldn't finance it, or the sellers couldn't afford to pay it off.
Another thing to look into, in many cases the panels aren't sold to the homeowner, you pay the solar company to use your roof. In those cases, they can retain all the rebates and tax deductions.
frenchyd said:Those politicians are trying to be careful with your tax dollars.
This is the best thing I've ever read on the internet. Go ahead and shut it down. Nothing greater has ever, or will ever been said.
It's kind of late to start a career in stand up comedy, but with lines like these, I have faith in you.
Fonzi would be proud of this shark jump.
frenchyd said:
The prime requirement is the vehicles are American made with "American" batteries.
How is that going to work with your Model 2? From what I'm reading it is Chinese designed and will be Chinese built.
Toyman! said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
The way it works is the solar company sells you the panels and finances them to you. You pay $xxx monthly.
The power generated by the panels reduces your power bill by a similar or slightly larger amount.
So, technically the panels don't cost you anything but you do have to pay for them.
See the above graphic of a shell game.
Contrary to some above posts, the payoff in the state of MN is 13-19 years with most systems being paid off in 16. Most panels fall off in efficiency in 20-25 years so you will get 5-10 years of return on your investment after paying for the panels for 16 years. Conviently most roof systems are also good for 20-25 years so the panels will need to come down about that time anyway assuming they were installed on a new roof.
I'm not saying they aren't worth it, but I am saying that the deal isn't as good as some make it out to be. If you plan to sell your house in the next 5-10 years be very careful. There have been more than a few real estate sales that have fallen apart due to roof-mounted solar. Either the buyers didn't want it, couldn't finance it, or the sellers couldn't afford to pay it off.
Another thing to look into, in many cases the panels aren't sold to the homeowner, you pay the solar company to use your roof. In those cases, they can retain all the rebates and tax deductions.
So that would be the lease all those telemarketers are talking about. They actually want to lease my roof? It sounds scammy to me.
I still like the old fashioned way. You take your truck to the warehouse. You hand the man some cash. The man hands you some solar panels.
No leases. No monthly payments. No fancy contracts.
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