In reply to frenchyd :
Ford has delivered more 15,000 electric trucks, has doubled production, has 200,000 orders in place, and is almost ready to launch their 2nd generation truck.
Tesla hasn't delivered a single truck yet. Not one.
Its a helluva missed opportunity.
There are plenty of photos on the net of the Texas plant production line running.
Yes the ones they are building are probably preproduction trucks to do the various tests required.
But that kinda indicates to me it's not going to be long before customers are taking delivery.
In reply to frenchyd :
Zero have been delivered.
Rivian is on target to deliver 50,000 electric trucks in 2023.
Ford is on target to deliver nearly 200,000 electric trucks in 2023.
Where is Elon? Playing with Twitter.
Rivian has delivered almost 8000 in Q1 2023.
I guess that would explain why I'm starting to see them with some frequency.
(was searching/typing at the same time as Paul)
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
Rivian is starting to build their 2nd plant. It will have a capacity of 400,000 vehicles per year.
In reply to SV reX :
I saw two of them yesterday and it had me wondering if they were selling well. I don't seem to see the F-150 EV as often, but granted those don't stand out as much so I may have seen one and not noticed.
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
I can't say exactly what my next job may be, but it may have something to do with R****n.
I had a long interesting conversation recently with one of the lead engineers at the Kia plant in West Point GA. He has been tasked with the job of converting their production line to build EVs. The big hurdle he has to overcome is not actually an engineering problem, it's an insurance problem.
The West Point plant is one of the newest manufacturing facilities in the nation. But it uses old-school technology. They don't have an automated method to remove a car from the assembly line out of order. There are 100 cars being worked on at once. In the event of an EV battery fire, it would shut the entire plant down for an extended period because of chemical exposure to toxic chemicals. They can't build EVs without having the batteries on board and having them fully charged to do testing. If one catches fire anywhere in the line, they can't get it out of the building.
In order to get a vehicle out of the line, they would need the maneuvering space for a large forklift. That would require two empty spaces between every car on the line. That would cut their production numbers by 60%. The bean counters will have no part of that. But they don't have the fire suppression system in place to do it any other way.
He has also been looking at utilizing electric forklifts. But they don't have the physical space for the fire separations to have the charging stations necessary for the number of forklifts they would need.
There doesn't seem to be a solution. Other than reconstruct the entire plant from scratch, even though it's only a few years old.
OSHA and insurance will guide the decisions of the future of EV manufacturing. Not innovation.
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
If you order one now, you'll be lucky to get it in 3 months. They're selling all they make. Question is, how many will they sell when an apparent recession hits and people start questioning if they need a $90k vehicle.
Boost_Crazy said:In reply to frenchyd :
So far none of the people I've talked to that have the system have said anything like what you are saying.
If you know how would you please post a link?
Here you go. I checked the state .gov sites, no free solar mentioned. Just the various solar rebate and incentive programs.
To find free, you need to look at the marketing for solar installers. The headline says free, like you claim. The details do not, and match what I and others said repeatedly. The people you have spoken to have fallen for a marketing gimmick. Here is a great example. Sensationalist "free" headline, followed by info on what the various "free" programs really mean- no upfront cost.
Free solar through the power of marketing
Thank you. But yes both of those government sites used the words Free in several places. And no upfront costs. I didn't know about the 30% tax rebate. And funds available to provide grants. So that's why we may be able to pay off in 7-11 years.
Remember new panels typically last well over 30 years and absorb more sunlight than panels a few years ago.
But yes there can be issues. I understand that the roof needs to be viable enough regarding southern exposure etc.
Fortunately the weather service has records going back well over 100 years of annual sunshine in my location. Using that and the roof angle( 30ft is 4/12 pitch) the rest is 21/12 pitch. So punch numbers in and here's how much each square foot of panels will generate annually.
I wasn't aware of the leasing option but I can't see why anyone would take that.
The list of approved venders is close to the list I used last winter, more companies though.
There are lists on the web of various solar panel companies including rankings by quality and specifications.
My approach was to select the panel I wanted and find who sold them.
Some simply looked at the satellite view of my house and would qualify me except for the trees on the property line. Rethinking my values, one of those trees was Ash which are threatened by a bug. 2 of them are sugar maples which have a tendency to have big branches break off and rot quickly from the inside. Plus one of them shades the roof enough to cause moss to grow on the shingles. So in retrospect. The shade they provide isn't worth the risks involved.
Yes they all required a minimum monthly use of $100 / month electric bill. Going back through the records we did every month except November which was close, typically around $95 . That didn't seem to bother most of them. Since the 12 month average was solidly over $100/ month.
In reply to frenchyd :
You are still saying "free" and "pay off in 7-11 years".
Which is it?
frenchyd said:Boost_Crazy said:In reply to frenchyd :
So far none of the people I've talked to that have the system have said anything like what you are saying.
If you know how would you please post a link?
Here you go. I checked the state .gov sites, no free solar mentioned. Just the various solar rebate and incentive programs.
To find free, you need to look at the marketing for solar installers. The headline says free, like you claim. The details do not, and match what I and others said repeatedly. The people you have spoken to have fallen for a marketing gimmick. Here is a great example. Sensationalist "free" headline, followed by info on what the various "free" programs really mean- no upfront cost.
Free solar through the power of marketing
Thank you. But yes both of those government sites used the words Free in several places. And no upfront costs. I didn't know about the 30% tax rebate. And funds available to provide grants. So that's why we may be able to pay off in 7-11 years.
Remember new panels typical lady well over 30 years and absorb more sunlite than panels a few years ago.
But yes there can be issues. I understand that the roof needs to be viable enough regarding southern exposure etc.Fortunately the weather service has records going back well over 100 years of annual sunshine in my location. Using that and the roof angle( 30ft is 4/12 pitch) the rest is 21/12 pitch. So punch numbers in and here's how much each square foot of panels will generate annually.
I wasn't aware of the leasing option but I can't see why anyone would take that.
The list of approved venders is close to the list I used last winter, more companies though.
There are lists on the web of various solar panel companies including rankings by quality and specifications.
My approach was to select the panel I wanted and find who sold them.
Some simply looked at the satellite view of my house and would qualify me except for the trees on the property line. Rethinking my values, one of those trees was Ash which are threatened by a bug. 2 of them are sugar maples which have a tendency to have big branches break off and rot quickly from the inside. Plus one of them shades the roof enough to cause moss to grow on the shingles. So in retrospect. The shade they provide isn't worth the risks involved.
Yes they all required a minimum monthly use of $100 / month electric bill. Going back through the records we did every month except November which was close, typically around $95 . That didn't seem to bother most of them. Since the 12 month average was solidly over $100/ month.
mn.gov/solar LITERALLY DOES NOT HAVE THE WORD FREE ON THE PAGE.
You can do a Ctrl+F "free" the result is zero. And that same mn.gov/solar page literally has this as a paragraph.
Notice that the part in bold?
The second page has this paragraph:
Eligible participants can receive an annual payment based on the system's energy production for ten years, which can significantly reduce the cost of solar panel installations and make solar energy more accessible to Minnesota residents.
As for the mention of "free" on the 2nd link, maybe actually read it. But we know that won't happen.
In reply to z31maniac :
That's interesting... So, they don't commit to buying electricity indefinitely, but only for 10 years? Frenchy won't get his system paid off for 11 years!
Is it possible that they would no longer buy back electricity through net metering after 10 years?
frenchyd said:AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
You do know that Ford has to file with the SEC every quarter right? So you know you can easily research their financials. It's a public record. Ford has about $39 Billion in cash too.
But I'm sure all your misinformed speculation about the truck market will influence all the truck shoppers.
10 is still > 1/3, but at least you are steadfast.
Please read the part where they have debt. I have a mortgage on my house and cash in the bank.
They got Uncle Sam. to give them a 9.2 billion dollar loan to build a battery factory.
Yes but you left out that Ford has substantial cash reserves too. You used partial evidence to paint an incomplete picture. That's not an honest approach.
The gov't is subsidizing lots of alternative energy projects now. So you are arguing it's great for solar panels at your house but bad for Ford. Really? You love subsidies unless it is to Ford? Are you painting a less complete more dishonest picture to shill for Tesla? I think so.
No car manufacturer is perfect but your Tesla vs Ford comparison is totally based on false and incomplete information.
Tom1200 said:bobzilla said:In reply to Tom1200 :
The meme thread would like to disagree. Please don't frenchy the facts.
The meme thread went more than 70 pages???
It's currently on page 1280
SV reX said:I had a long interesting conversation recently with one of the lead engineers at the Kia plant in West Point GA. He has been tasked with the job of converting their production line to build EVs. The big hurdle he has to overcome is not actually an engineering problem, it's an insurance problem.
The West Point plant is one of the newest manufacturing facilities in the nation. But it uses old-school technology. They don't have an automated method to remove a car from the assembly line out of order. There are 100 cars being worked on at once. In the event of an EV battery fire, it would shut the entire plant down for an extended period because of chemical exposure to toxic chemicals. They can't build EVs without having the batteries on board and having them fully charged to do testing. If one catches fire anywhere in the line, they can't get it out of the building.
In order to get a vehicle out of the line, they would need the maneuvering space for a large forklift. That would require two empty spaces between every car on the line. That would cut their production numbers by 60%. The bean counters will have no part of that. But they don't have the fire suppression system in place to do it any other way.
He has also been looking at utilizing electric forklifts. But they don't have the physical space for the fire separations to have the charging stations necessary for the number of forklifts they would need.
There doesn't seem to be a solution. Other than reconstruct the entire plant from scratch, even though it's only a few years old.
OSHA and insurance will guide the decisions of the future of EV manufacturing. Not innovation.
I was selling electric forklifts shortly after I got out of the Navy. Clark had been using them since WW2 Pilksbury uses almost all electric as Does General Mills and most food plants. Office use is always Electric. Go to Home Depot, Lowes, etc and they are all electric.
All the grocery warehouses have been using them since the 1950's There shouldn't any issue.
In reply to frenchyd :
"All the grocery warehouses have been using them since the 1950's There shouldn't any issue."
Yes, move production to an old grocery warehouse. Boom, done.
In reply to frenchyd :
Those were lead acid batteries and slow chargers.
High speed chargers and Li batteries are completely different.
Feel free to start your own insurance company.
In reply to AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) :
What I'm saying is somehow groceries are moved by those dangerous electric forklifts using Lead acid batteries.
See forklifts need counterweights and lead is a wonderful counter weight. It's also massively cheaper than lithium. Granted the charge only last 8-12 hours depending on which battery is selected and use ( the ones in freezers don't run as long as those in the rest of the warehouse) but then the drivers need to periodically warm up.
electric forklifts are designed to quickly change batteries at shift change.
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm just sharing what the engineer said about what he is currently dealing with in an EV manufacturing plant. He didn't seem to care how grocery stores did it in the 1950's.
OSHA and the insurance company are requiring fire separation for the charging stations, and they don't have the space.
In reply to SV reX :
Is there a big issue with Lead bursting into flames in the south?
If so I completely understand .
In reply to frenchyd :
They are not lead.
4 million mile battery?
Tesla is proposing adapting a new battery formula.
NMC Nickle manganese Cobalt
For all you skeptics out there it's only in preliminary trials and it might only last 2 million miles out of the laboratory and in te real world.
The source of that information and the actual interview with Elon Musk is on Tesla world maybe one of you could post a link?
Thank you in advance.
In reply to frenchyd :
Is there a place that you can sign up to be part of this club? Do they have a special song we can sing together while we are learning to spell? Please tell me they have a special hat... with EARS! I really want a hat with ears!
How can I be one of the Musk-eteers??
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