SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:yamaha wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: All the new 4cyl ford "Automatics" are robomanuals......times will change in a hurry.I heard their Dual Clutch trans wasn't great.
That's one I've experienced myself in a new Focus. It was absolutely the most annoying automatic I've ever driven. Big FAIL, IMO.
GameboyRMH wrote:dean1484 wrote: The cutting spark may be an issue with the emissions police.Or more immediately, your cylinder walls...I know it looks and sounds cool and it's a little quicker, but you don't want that on an engine you aren't going to rebuild in a few hours anyway.
Might want to find out how the OEMs deal with that. PDK cars cut ignition during upshifts.
GameboyRMH wrote:SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: Honestly I can't see how the sludgebox (as a whole) hasn't been replaced with a DSG style transmission yet.I think eventually they'll be replaced with robotized manuals, but right now slushboxes are cheaper (because they're more established tech & built in greater numbers) and most drivers don't mind the awful feeling of driving one.
Single-clutch robot manuals have been around for a long time, but are typically very harsh in around-town driving. The work great for the track, but they suck for commuting. The ones that were tuned more for street use got panned (MR2 spyder, IIRC) for being slow and unresponsive.
The dual-clutch ones seem to be much better about doing both, but they're substantially more complex than the single clutch ones (concentric shafts are fiddly) and so they're more expensive. I don't know if they're more complex than the 8-speed (!) automatics that are coming out these days, though.
codrus wrote:GameboyRMH wrote:Single-clutch robot manuals have been around for a long time, but are typically very harsh in around-town driving. The work great for the track, but they suck for commuting. The ones that were tuned more for street use got panned (MR2 spyder, IIRC) for being slow and unresponsive. The dual-clutch ones seem to be much better about doing both, but they're substantially more complex than the single clutch ones (concentric shafts are fiddly) and so they're more expensive. I don't know if they're more complex than the 8-speed (!) automatics that are coming out these days, though.SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: Honestly I can't see how the sludgebox (as a whole) hasn't been replaced with a DSG style transmission yet.I think eventually they'll be replaced with robotized manuals, but right now slushboxes are cheaper (because they're more established tech & built in greater numbers) and most drivers don't mind the awful feeling of driving one.
Single-clutch manuals could be good around town, that's just a software problem. The MP4-12C has a single-clutch robo-manual.
I'd be happy with a manual-automatic with a clutch instead of a torque converter. Use the clutch to start and stop, and clutchless shifting once moving.
bravenrace wrote: I'd be happy with a manual-automatic with a clutch instead of a torque converter. Use the clutch to start and stop, and clutchless shifting once moving.
You want a ClutchFlite!
My buddy just got a 2010 Lexus IS250 (rwd) with the paddle shifters. He put it in manual mode and drove it straight into redline and the engine went quiet. I mentioned the bouncing rev limiter a block or two later and he had forgotten already!
It appeared to do exactly what he wanted, when he wanted it.
I cannot believe no one mentioned the VW Auto-Stick from the 70's!
My brother had one of those, didn't understand the switch in the shift lever. He could not figure out why the engine would just rev like hell when he would ride along with his hand on the shift knob. 
Somewhere out there is a Fiat X 1/9 a guy converted to something similar for a woman whose left leg just wouldn't work right.
bravenrace wrote: I'd be happy with a manual-automatic with a clutch instead of a torque converter. Use the clutch to start and stop, and clutchless shifting once moving.
Sooo.... you want a Quaife sequential dogbox, yes? 
GameboyRMH wrote: Single-clutch manuals could be good around town, that's just a software problem. The MP4-12C has a single-clutch robo-manual.
The 1997 MP4/12 (the F1 car that Hakkinen drove) has a single-clutch robo-manual. The 2011+ MP4-12c (the street car) is dual-clutch.
Software problem or not, it's difficult enough to solve that all the high end cars are now dual-clutch instead of single. S4, S6, M3, M5, 458 Italia, 12c, etc.
Anybody driven an IS-F or a FR-S auto?
I don't want any transmission (be it controlled by a microprocessor or a valve body) that thinks its smarter than me. I drive an 18ft. box truck in heavy traffic all day, and my friends all think I'm nuts when I tell them I wish it wasn't an automatic.
The only torque converter based automatics that will ever stand a chance of gaining my favor over a traditional manual, or even a good dual-clutch unit, requires the torque converter to lock any time that a clutch would be engaged. I have yet to drive one that does this at all in 'automatic' mode, and only a precious few that even do it sufficiently in 'manual' or 'sport' mode...There by immediately defeating half the usefulness of having 'manual' and 'sport' modes as anything more than a marketing gimmick in most cars. I don't care how many more speeds it has than it's competitors. If it unlocks the torque converter every time I tip the throttle around town, it's just more of the same sloppy E36 M3.
It's a point of endless frustration to me that all of the manufacturers I'm aware of are so inept when it comes to producing automatic transmissions that genuinely don't suck to drive, rather than just saying it doesn't to convince those who don't know any better. After all these years and development dollars, I really would have thought somebody would have had the testicular fortitude to push such a design.
Of course rather than making a torque converter automatic that behaves more like an automated manual, Ford tried to make an automated manual that behaves more like a torque converter automatic. LOL
GameboyRMH wrote:dean1484 wrote: The cutting spark may be an issue with the emissions police.Or more immediately, your cylinder walls...I know it looks and sounds cool and it's a little quicker, but you don't want that on an engine you aren't going to rebuild in a few hours anyway.
Not a problem with DI, it can kill the fuel just as fast.
I have driven some really bad paddle switch type automatics. It seems the pipeline that connects the switch to the gearbox is filled with sludge. ….. More than likely, some computer needs to analyses the situation and decide the best course of action. WTF… I just told it what to do and it needs to think about it?
I think 5 speeds and a stick shift is more my style anyway.
basically everything a manual trans does except with hand controls and w/o having to step on the clutch
If it results in quicker 0-60 and/or lap times, I'm not too worried about anything else other than maintenance/durability, and how much it adds to the price of the car.
SWMBO's Fit has the auto w/paddles, and they were fun for a week or so, but we haven't touched them since then. While it isn't the sportiest car, I have a hunch even if I had a Porsche/Audi/VW with a DSG box, I still wouldn't use the paddles in most daily driving.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:yamaha wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: All the new 4cyl ford "Automatics" are robomanuals......times will change in a hurry.I heard their Dual Clutch trans wasn't great.
i heard they were bad at one point then a software update fixed them
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