Learn me dealer markup on a used car

With the tariff insanity I know the market is supposed to be crazy, but haven't bought from a dealer for a decade so it is tough knowing what is reasonable and what is not.  Car is a 2012-15 Camry Hybrid, looking for one with less than 125K miles in nice cosmetic shape.  One or 2 owner.  KBB says pp resale is 9-10K for these, found 2 at local dealers that look good but the numbers seem high.  One is advertised for 14K, one is 12.5K with a 1.5K prep fee.  When we sat down and started talking money they both dropped about a grand, doc fees are 700 at both.  This is exclusive of tax and transfer, something I can pay 150 for at the local tag store.

So is 3000 over private party high typical or high due to the market?  One is a toyota dealer and one a used car lot, both in the Phila burbs.

Toyota hybrids are commanding unusual money everywhere. I've been watching them for a while and the comparable hybrid seems to be 3-5k min more than the non-hybrid model. I would check autotempest and see what national comps are at. 

ETA- a quick check reveals that these are commanding stupid money everywhere. Low mile 10 year old cars are over 20k in some spots. 

This is why I quit shopping hybrids. Quick math led me to the conclusion that the gain in MPG wouldn't offset the cost of the vehicle for close to a decade, and by then I'm paying for a battery pack. It just wasn't worth it, for me. If you're primarily city, that changes. 

Average markup on a used vehicle is @$3k across the USA. Obviously there are many factors, regions, etc. but that's the average. 

I went around and around with my '16 Chevrolet Silverado trade at the Chevy dealer 15 months ago.  KBB private party sale was $10,000 and we ended up at $8500.  

Two days later they advertised it on the website for $15,000 then $14,000 then $13,000 then it disappeared.  Sell? Dump it? Wholesale it?  

I'd figure out KBB trade then add $2500 for detailing and profit and make that my offer. 

A high mile Camry still commands a high price and a Hybrid Camry even higher.  

You know who made a ton of Hybrid sedans...that no one goes looking for, keeping prices low?   

'11 MKZ Hybrid w/ 135k @ $5.8k

'12 MKZ Hybrid w/ 125k @ $7k

'14 MKZ Hybrid w/ 58k @ $13k

'13 MKZ Hybrid w/ 97k @ $11k

If you're looking at Camry you owe it to yourself to look at Avalon Hybrid too.  

Lexus ES350 Hybrid (the fancy Camry) might not cost more.  
'13 Lexus ES w/104k @ $14k

Lexus HS250 Hybrid, the forgotten Lexus small sedan but less mpg...like 35. 
'10 Lexus HS w/97k $7.75k

In reply to porschenut :

Service records.  You might find that a used Lexus has been more "dealer serviced" than a similar Carmy.  But, check for yourself, from home:  

For Toyota and Scions you can set up a free account for Toyota owners (even w/o owning a Toyota) and download all the dealer service records for those specific cars, by entering the vin.  https://www.toyota.com/owners/
By default, the Scion records are now done through the Toyota site.  Lexus will also give the same info from their site for that brand.  

I don't know if there is a way to pull Lincoln records other than what CarFax might have.  But, I feel the same logic may apply that a Lincoln was dealer serviced and a similar Ford Fusion got less expensive service.  

What I really like about the Prius that I buy...these were high tech cars for their time and most all got all their service at the dealership.  I've had ones in the past where the free records revieled that even tires were bought at the dealership.  

Camry Hybrids, at least in this part of the world, are snatched up as taxicabs at any price, and driven for a million miles.  I very much doubt I could buy one here, even if I wanted to pay way too much money.

So education complete, 3K from PP sale price is typical, I am just a cranky old fart.  I found a bunch of candidates that are PP sales in the DC area, priced low enough that a carfax account and night in a hotel is worth it.  And we don't need the car but our monthly trips across PA in a baja turbo do use the fuel.  A hybrid camry would cost half as much.  Yes I know the payback on this "savings" but she wants a sedan.  And I have to get her the sedan before I can buy anything else.  Lexus didn't make the cut, too soft a ride.  Lincoln will probably fall into that category and for totally logic-less reasons I only trust the toyota hybrid systems.  Too many years in a gen2 prius.

I was told by an owner of a new car dealership that the profit was really on the Used car lot ,  

Bigger profit plus you can make money on the finance , warranty and other add ons.

But you still have to buy it right , and really check the car out for hidden problems that might bite into any profits.

Good Luck

There is no such thing as average markup on used vehicles, it 's all what the traffic ( and local market) will bear - that week.

The biggest differences are based on mileage and condition and previous ownership/records, there is no way to compare two cars without going to look, drive and have them evaluated by someone who knows the car.

As an example, just being at Carmax or a Toyota dealer is no guarantee that their car is better than the ones at a used car lot, but chances are good that they are. You also have a little more recourse at one of those places than at "Joe's Used Cars" if something goes south on you.

If the car is a one owner with good provenance, it will bring more money than one that's had three owners etc. but I think it will be worth it.

Too many variables on used cars, all you can do is do your due diligence and buy the best one you can afford.

I generally will pay more for a one owner car that's been garage kept, serviced at the dealer's  and has low miles. In fact, that's pretty much the only used car I will buy and sometimes it takes a while to find one like that. I also find I get better cars from high line dealers, when traded on one of their cars - not bought at auction - they also try and charge more, so your own negotiating skills come into play. (EG: I bought a 2017 Audi Allroad wagon at the local Mercedes/Range Rover/Porsche dealer, it had been traded in on a new Range Rover, the owner's were local and it had 25K miles - and looked it. It was an "extra" car at their vacation home in Palm Springs and had all the proper dealer service records)

As a new or used car manager, the only cars I sent to auction were ones I would not sell at my store - take what you will from that.

That sounds in line with what I've experienced - both on the buying and dealer/selling side.  They're selling the sizzle, and they have significant overhead to deal with - seller comission, mortgage, electric bill, advertising, salaries, etc.