Learn Me: TIG

So, a couple weeks ago I picked up a large "farm welder" for cheap intending to use it to build a roll cage and bash bars for my drift/challenge car. Since then I have found out that stick welding is not an approved method for roll cages. So now I am looking into TIG welding. I understand that it is the hardest of the common methods, but I can learn.

Here's a picture of my deal on the stick welder I got of Craigslist, just for reference. I plan to keep it as I'm sure it will still be useful for some things.

So, what I'm looking for from the hive-mind:

1. Donations of a decent TIG to a young guy looking to improve his skills....
2. Suggestions for a decent TIG. (I am mostly looking used, as a package that already has an Argon bottle. Was supposed to pick one up last night, but the guy flaked.)
3. Tips for TIG welding.

YouTube is one place to look at TIG tips. There's plenty there. Miler and Lincoln both make good small TIGs. I have a Lincoln 175 amp unit since 2002 and have had no issues. I was at the EAA event up in Oshkosh, WI last week and got to use the newest small Lincoln TIG unit. 200 amps and it weights about 1/2 of what my current one does meaning it's actually portable! My current unit takes 2 people to lift and carry it. Show price of $1100 was even less than what I paid for my 175!

Do look used as there are good machines out there. Consider contacting a welding supply store to see it they have any "trade ins" plus find out what brand they sell and look at that brand used. This way parts are easy to get and near by.

I learned to TIG before anything else. It was a great skill to learn, not hard. You just need practice.

Best bang for the buck if buying new.

I bought one of these, and am very happy with it. About a grand all in before gas.

Of course, it is hard to go wrong with blue or red machines.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I learned to TIG before anything else. It was a great skill to learn, not hard. You just need practice.

Yup, same here. Tried both MIG and stick and was terrible at it before I ever got my hands on a TIG machine, but that's where I really learned (sort of, I'm still not that good.) I think it was very beneficial for being able to learn how to watch and manipulate the puddle and once I got that down it was much easier to pick up MIG.

Furious_E wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I learned to TIG before anything else. It was a great skill to learn, not hard. You just need practice.

Yup, same here. Tried both MIG and stick and was terrible at it before I ever got my hands on a TIG machine, but that's where I really learned (sort of, I'm still not that good.) I think it was very beneficial for being able to learn how to watch and manipulate the puddle and once I got that down it was much easier to pick up MIG.

That's basically my goal here. Practice, practice, practice TIG, and the rest should come pretty easy.

It's like soldering - easy in concept and something that some people pick up easily, while others flounder around.

Years ago I bought a Miller EconoTig and didn't like it, mostly because it cut of at the low end. Really nice machines can be dialed/throttled way down to really finesse the weld, weenie machines can't. Unfortunately the welders are marketed by how MUCH current they can produce, which is completely unimportant.

Anyway, I ended up buying a Miller Synchrowave 250 back before the inverter models existed and never looked back. The high price at the time really stung but I don't regret it for a second. It still works great and in fact just used it for a fishpond filter project.

kb58 wrote: It's like soldering - easy in concept and something that some people pick up easily, while others flounder around.

Well, I consider myself decent at soldering, being self/YouTube taught, so I expect with practice I should be able to pick this up pretty easily.

kb58 wrote: Years ago I bought a Miller EconoTig and didn't like it, mostly because it cut of at the low end. Really nice machines can be dialed/throttled way down to really finesse the weld, weenie machines can't. Unfortunately the welders are marketed by how MUCH current they can produce, which is completely unimportant. Anyway, I ended up buying a Miller Synchrowave 250 back before the inverter models existed and never looked back. The high price at the time really stung but I don't regret it for a second. It still works great and in fact just used it for a fishpond filter project.

There are two Lincoln Presicion 185 TIG's on Craigslist right now that I am considering. Trying to decide if it is enough for my needs, or if I should save up more for a bigger one.

https://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/d/welder-lincoln-185-tigstick/6228550084.html

I am mainly looking at roll cage welding, but would like to be able to weld thicker stuff for like trailers and custom motor mounts if needed. From what I'm reading, something like the 185 should be fine for thinner stuff and the thicker stuff I could always stick weld either with the TIG set to stick, or with my big 'ol stick welder. Does that sound accurate?

I have the Lincoln 185 and while it served its purpose getting me started welding, it has pretty much gathered dust since I bought the Lincoln 180 MIG. The TIG does a nice job but takes forever and is best suited for bench-work.

TIG tolerates exactly zero grime, paint or rust in the weld pool. Whereas a good hot MIG setting seems to buy you some latitude. The upshot is that the TIG is not friendly to welding on your old classic car unless you can get the old tin antiseptically clean on both sides.

NOHOME wrote: I have the Lincoln 185 and while it served its purpose getting me started welding, it has pretty much gathered dust since I bought the Lincoln 180 MIG. The TIG does a nice job but takes forever and is best suited for bench-work. TIG tolerates exactly zero grime, paint or rust in the weld pool. Whereas a good hot MIG setting seems to buy you some latitude. The upshot is that the TIG is not friendly to welding on your old classic car unless you can get the old tin antiseptically clean on both sides.

I have heard that about the cleanliness of the material.

Though, for roll cage, etc I wouldn't think that would be too much of an issue.

AWSX1686 wrote:

NOHOME wrote: I have the Lincoln 185 and while it served its purpose getting me started welding, it has pretty much gathered dust since I bought the Lincoln 180 MIG. The TIG does a nice job but takes forever and is best suited for bench-work. TIG tolerates exactly zero grime, paint or rust in the weld pool. Whereas a good hot MIG setting seems to buy you some latitude. The upshot is that the TIG is not friendly to welding on your old classic car unless you can get the old tin antiseptically clean on both sides.

I have heard that about the cleanliness of the material. Though, for roll cage, etc I wouldn't think that would be too much of an issue.

On new, never-rusted metal, that has been wiped free of any oil contamination, the TIG is like magic: quiet and controllable with very little smoke.

I have done the comparison between a wiped-clean weldment and a just ground-clean weldment and there is a difference.

NOHOME wrote:

AWSX1686 wrote:

NOHOME wrote: I have the Lincoln 185 and while it served its purpose getting me started welding, it has pretty much gathered dust since I bought the Lincoln 180 MIG. The TIG does a nice job but takes forever and is best suited for bench-work. TIG tolerates exactly zero grime, paint or rust in the weld pool. Whereas a good hot MIG setting seems to buy you some latitude. The upshot is that the TIG is not friendly to welding on your old classic car unless you can get the old tin antiseptically clean on both sides.

I have heard that about the cleanliness of the material. Though, for roll cage, etc I wouldn't think that would be too much of an issue.

On new, never-rusted metal, that has been wiped free of any oil contamination, the TIG is like magic: quiet and controllable with very little smoke. I have done the comparison between a wiped-clean weldment and a just ground-clean weldment and there is a difference.

I believe you!

So do we think a 185 is good enough for my purposes?

Honestly it sounds like a MIG is what you need. I picked up a Alphatig 200 AC/DC machine and love it for aluminum, but just about every steel project I've done with it would have been quicker and easier with a MIG.

Fitment has to be PERFECT for TIG, with MIG you can be a little sloppy and save a lot of time and hassle.

If you crave the roll of dimes look, go right ahead, but be prepared for a lot of frustration and ugly welds as you learn.

The slow weld speed of TIG is to me not a concern when balanced against the lack of sparks and smoke. The way I look at it; I built two cars from scratch, the first took 10 years and the second one 5 years. If I'd have used MIG instead of TIG, it would have taken 9.9 and 4.95 years and the welds would look meh. I'll take the cleanliness of TIG and seamlessly being able to weld aluminum, stainless, mild steel, and 4130.

OTOH if you run a business where time is money, sure, go for MIG.

I agree, slow weld speed is not a concern. And making sure everything is clean and tight fitting for TIG to work well is just good practice for me too.

My goal is to get good a TIG and also pick up a tubing bender, and after a lot of practice be able to make roll cages for myself and for others.

TIG is great on the bench. Welding a roll cage unless you can remove it from the car will be frustrating if your just learning. Remember TIG normally takes both hands and a foot control. So out of position welding in a car can be creative to control all those things. Also whatever brand you buy in the budget category unless it is a Miller or Lincoln is going to cost more in the end. The lower priced units come with a horrible foot pedal. You get a nice one with the name brand ones. After you weld with both you will see how much easier a good pedal helps with controlling your weld.

Thanks for the tips. I am mostly looking at a Lincoln or Miller. Specifically a Lincoln Precision 185 on Craigslist.

And at least to start, my first roll cage will be for my Z3 drift car, so I'll be able to assemble outside of the car.

The 185 will do pretty much what you want. It is pretty much maxed out on aluminum over 1/8" thick.

I bought it thinking I would be doing all kinds of metal finished body repairs on old Brit cars. What I found out is that it is quite difficult to get used metal clean enough to TIG weld, mostly because the backside needs to be just as clean as the front. Also, in order to metal finish a seam, you need to be able to get at the backside (rare that it can be done on-car)

So, despite getting a lot of welding done with it, and learned a bit about welding and puddle control in the process, the path of least resistance led me to the MIG.

I can weld air, rust and paint with the MIG when circumstances force the issue.

Thanks. I think I am going to try and sell my motorcycle before I bite the bullet on a TIG welder, unless a steal of a deal comes up. Thanks for all the tips everyone!