The Lucerne (renamed Park Avenue) is a good example of the Old GM "Make a car that will run badly longer than most cars will run at all" mentality. I'd avoid ones with a Northstar V8, but either V6 is going to be a nearly indestructible cast iron beast, and they depreciate faster than they lose their ability to be dependable transportation.
There's a lot of Hyundai/Kia talk for a thread without Bob. I'll second the Equus for a shockingly nice car for second hand Corolla money.
And as I have a Mazda5, I'll throw my vote there too. It's a van, but it just feels better.
untchabl said:Found this Infiniti Q45 on local Craigslist. Would like to go check it out but won't have time until Tuesday at the earliest, maybe he will still have it.
He'll still have the car. No one goes looking for Q45s. But, having owned 3 Gen1's, I really like them. This is the first year of Gen3. I'm not fully versed in Gen3 issues but I like them. Its a big car with a big engine. I like the sellers words and the way he speaks of the car. This seems like a seller I would like buying from.
These were cutting edge cars. Unique headlamps (and they are not cheap.) The Gen2's were the first car sold in the US with rear camera as standard equipment. These Gen3's were the first to offer a radar cruise control system 9like modern cars all have now.) Etc.
The price is good (not great) but condition will really dictate the value. I assure you the world is not beating down his door to give him $6k for 170k miles. But the cars are stout enough to go many miles more. Just know when buying it that selling it will be just as hard for you so don't pay too much.
Here's a link to the seller's add of 14 days ago
Samples of longevity:
Same engine w/ 258k miles
Same engine w/ 251k
Older lexus and caddies tend to have a good value prop if you don't care much about tech. Watch for low mileage older lexus LS/GS perhaps?
I vote Volvo wagon from your list.
Kids?
sliding doors ftw
and double that for power doors.
I insisted on it when I realized that it was when, not if, my kids threw the door open into some new Porsche. (Which they would definitely hit instead of the clapped out Camaro on the other side).
Getting ready to go look at a 09 Mazda5. I'll report back later.
I feel like LS430's are under valued as well. It's tough to find one that costs more than $10k.
They were the last of the truly bulletproof Lexus', huge back seat, huge trunk, impeccable build quality, decent options even by 2023 standards.
If you can deal with the so-so fuel economy, they're a solid pick
I can't recommend any Audi/Benz in the $6-8k range. That's an old car and old German Cars have OGCS (Old German Car Syndrome). You're buying the seller much more than the car at that point and if you want one, you buy one from a guy that's maintained it obsessively and has the records to prove it. Even then, expect it to have several thousand dollars of work that'll need to get done, even if you are doing the labor.
I like to think I am the king of this type of vehicle. My wife works at a supermarket but she wants a fairly nice car. Which means I have to find her something decent that will get destroyed thru no fault of her own. Over the last 10 years, between her and my two daughters getting their licenses and going thru college, I have purchased a Saab 9-3, two broken Mini Coopers, a Saturn Vue V6 with 4 wheel drive, a high mileage Lexus RX350, a Solara convertible, and lastly a Genesis with a 4.6L V8. Computer issues took down the Saab at 200K miles as did one of the Minis at 155K miles. A deer took out the Solara, but I still sold it for almost what I paid for it. Trans took out the Saturn at 130K but that was an anomaly. That vehicle was really good at what it was suppose to do and it was cheap. Lexus just hit 160K miles with no end in sight. Second Mini has around 130, 50 of which my youngest has ut on over the last 3 years and is still running strong. We bought the Genesis about 8 months ago and it only had 33K miles. Has 42 now and is perfect and way faster than a car like that should be. Absolutely love that car. A realtor that I do work with recently purchased a 7 series BMW used. He drove my Genesis and immediately went on Facebook and bought one. Had it shipped up from Miami and sold the BMW. BMW was $37K and the Genesis was $15K.
Well, I passed on that 09 Mazda5 I looked at. Asking price was $5200 and she was firm at $5000. It had a salvage title, both front fenders, hood, bumper and both headlights replaced. Panel gaps on the front end were not good. Airbag light flashing on the dash. Rear hatch glass loose and letting water leak in.
None of these issues were mentioned in the marketplace ad of course.
I do like the Mazda5 overall though and it is currently at the top of the list. So the search continues.
In reply to tr8todd :
Good call on the V6 Vue. I believe those had a Honda motor where power was significantly under rated. The V6 versions scoot
In reply to untchabl :
We had a 2010 Mazda5, the last year of the first version. Now knowing, I would look for a 2012, the second version; the one with the swoopy side. I like the 2.5L that much more than the 2.3L that I'd be okay with the swoop just to get that engine. Over the two versions every body panel is different, except the floor pan and the roof panel remain the same. Therefore it's really just a updated version rather than a chassis change.
PS: there is no 2011 Mazda5. They ran the 2010's long and then launched the 2012's early.
In reply to John Welsh :
But the first gen just looks so much better. However I am only looking at the later first gens that have the 5-speed automatic so it's a smaller pool of available cars to pick from. I'll try to find a second gen that is close by and see how it compares. Thanks.
John Welsh said:untchabl said:Found this Infiniti Q45 on local Craigslist. Would like to go check it out but won't have time until Tuesday at the earliest, maybe he will still have it.
He'll still have the car. No one goes looking for Q45s. But, having owned 3 Gen1's, I really like them. This is the first year of Gen3. I'm not fully versed in Gen3 issues but I like them. Its a big car with a big engine. I like the sellers words and the way he speaks of the car. This seems like a seller I would like buying from.
These were cutting edge cars. Unique headlamps (and they are not cheap.) The Gen2's were the first car sold in the US with rear camera as standard equipment. These Gen3's were the first to offer a radar cruise control system 9like modern cars all have now.) Etc.
The price is good (not great) but condition will really dictate the value. I assure you the world is not beating down his door to give him $6k for 170k miles. But the cars are stout enough to go many miles more. Just know when buying it that selling it will be just as hard for you so don't pay too much.
Here's a link to the seller's add of 14 days ago
Samples of longevity:
Same engine w/ 258k miles
Same engine w/ 251k
Hopefully going to look at the Q45 on Thursday. Found it listed on Facebook Marketplace and messaged back and forth with the owner. Seems to be a responsible middle aged individual that has treated the car well (seemingly hard to find nowadays). I'll report back after I check it out.
I've rented probably 100 cars over the past 10 years at my current employer. Ones that stand out in my mind:
Chevy Impala with 3.6
Ecoboost Ford Fusion
Previous generation RAV4 with the V6
Toyota Sienna
Mopar vans with the 3.6 are hit or miss. Some are rippers and others meh.
5.0 Mustang GT with 10 speed
The question is, do you fit in the passenger front seat in front of a rear facing child seat? Do you fit in the 2nd row to watch the kid while your spouse is driving?
We started with a Ford Flex because it was the only car where I was comfortable in the second row with legroom and headroom to spare. Later, we upgraded to a supercrew truck and a Mazda 5.
I am happy to see all the votes for the Mazda 5. It is the most fun car with sliding doors. Seating 4 adults and two kids in a pinch is a nice bonus. Otherwise, it has a gigantic trunk for even the most ridiculous strollers.
The Mazda 5 is definitely not undervalued at this point. They are great cars, but they are tough to find a deal on.
Sorry, but kids equals minivan every time. Don't even try to kid yourselves otherwise.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
Yup. Minivan of your favorite flavor. I bought one in 1992 - first kid, first new car - and I have never not had one in the last 30+ years. There's still one in my garage though the kids are now adults and long moved out.
I'm going to recommend against the Volvo wagon even though I have one. It's a nice car but it is complicated and not cheap. Nor is it huge inside.
I'll second the vote for the newest / nicest Impala you can find in budget. Big back seat, gargantuan trunk, nice enough drive, cheap, easy to work on.
Or the Avalon as mentioned right off the bat. Big, nice car, and can usually be found at the same price point (or less) than a Camry. Everyone knows Camrys but nobody knows Avalons. Plus they tend to be owned by people who take nice care of them.
A friend currently has an Equus in his care. Yes, a lot of car for the money. I believe he’s having troubling finding someone to fix the air suspension (or maybe fix it at a fire price), though, so just a little heads-up.
Is the Caravan the best bang for the buck in minivans? I'm having trouble finding any Mazda5's that are a decent price and in decent condition.
In reply to untchabl :
For me, the answer after '10 Mazda5 was '19 Grand Caravan (GC) as detailed in this thread. The GC was purely a value proposition purchase. I bought at the right time but even aside from that time...the Toyota and Honda might be more reliable and certainly will hold their resale value...but the GC has the lowest entry cost. The GC just hit 70k miles. I have every intention of getting rid of it before 100k. Certainly before 125k. But, up to this point it has been trouble free. It's driven less than 10k miles per year so I expect to have it for 3-5 more years.
Racebrick said:The Mazda 5 is definitely not undervalued at this point. They are great cars, but they are tough to find a deal on.
We have no idea what we will do when we have to replace ours. Wife's insistent on sliding doors ever since the first odyssey. We've had two of the Hondas and a Sienna, but we like the Five most of all.
Two more to think about: the Azera and Cadenza from Hyundai and Kia. The Korean's answer to the Avalon.
With minivans, a forgotten one is the VW Routan. It is a Dodge with a VW interior. No stow n go, though you can swap it in.
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