Low Oil Pressure - Just the Pump?

After some digging and scraping

That mess certainly wasn't helping.  Getting that cleaned out plus resealing the pickup to the pump just might be enough to do the trick. 

Somewhere in here is a "I like my coffee like I like my oil pickups..." joke.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Somewhere in here is a "I like my coffee like I like my oil pickups..." joke.

Gritty?

eastsideTim said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Somewhere in here is a "I like my coffee like I like my oil pickups..." joke.

Gritty?

Black and constipated?

wae... At this point I might consider a new pickup.  They're probably $20.  I'm thinking the black gunk is pretty much a smoking gun, but I would hate to have you pull the pan a third time because this one has a hairline fracture in it that you didn't see.

Did you pull the pan out or did you just get enough room to sneak the pickup out?  I'm asking because I suspect the latter and I'm concerned that there's more pickup plugging junk still in there.  I agree with Curtis on replacing the pickup and I think that if you do that and clean the pan well you should be I good shape.

I just had flashbacks to pulling nylon timing gear teeth out of a 70 Cadillac 472 pickup.  If I had an easy button of just replacing the pickup I would have.

You know, Curtis, you must have been sending me mental messages because I just crawled out from under the truck deciding to wait until Monday morning until I can get to the Ferd dealer to pickup a new..  uh, pickup tube.  I don't see any cracks or anything like that and I taped up the pickup end and blew air into it and didn't get any leaks, but in the process of removing it, the bracket that is used to mount it to the block got a little bent.  My rationale was that bending it back could possibly tear something, so why take the chance when a new one is probably about thirty bucks.

I did only lower the pan, I did not remove it entirely.  The exhaust is in the way and the exhaust flange bolts are doing what exhaust flange bolts do.  I did fill the pan with diesel and let it sit for a while, sloshing it around, and then drained it out and followed that with a bunch of brake cleaner.  Pushing my camera around in there I'm not seeing a ton of gunk, although if I could easily get the pan off I would much prefer to scrub it out.  I did run a brush around the sump to knock anything loose and it came out pretty clean.

New pickup tube is ordered at the local Ferd dealer and should be ready for me to pick up this afternoon.

I'm not real confident that this is going to work, but rather than drop $4k plus shipping on a reman motor, I'll pull the engine and rebuild it myself with the help of the local machine shop, so I'll need this part anyway.

Those 'coffee grounds' look like carbonized eng oil and sludge. This leads me ask just how close the exhaust system is to the oil pan(s). Can't say that I've ever seen anything quite like what's in your photo.

The exhaust is close enough that I can't get the oil pan out without removing the y-pipe.  There was certainly some "stuff" in the valve covers and timing cover, but it wasn't particularly horrible-looking and the bottom of the sump doesn't seem to be filled with goop.  All of the gunk in the engine was accumulated in that strainer bell and in the void behind the timing chain tensioners, basically.  There wasn't any sludge or anything inside the oil pump or the pressure relief valve.  Honestly, everything looked fairly clean for a 132k, 21-year old engine.

My dad...  I don't know how he does this...  But my dad said he ran in to a guy that was a Ford tech for 30 years today and regaled the poor man with my tale of woe.  According to dad, this guy said that the V10s were absolutely notorious for having oil starvation in the top end and that the motor is thrashed with no hope.  He claimed to have seen this same thing over and over and that the V10 was just a terrible motor because of it.  His advice was to just junk the whole thing because it wasn't worth the time and money to rebuild the engine and to absolutely avoid the Jasper rebuild because it was also junk.  None of that seems particularly true, but I can apparently get a Motorcraft reman shipped to my door for around $4,500 once I ship the core back.  I would be rather shocked that a motor that isn't spitting out bits of metal can't be rebuilt, but the more I learn the more I need to learn, so I'm just going to continue to play the hand I'm dealt here.

In reply to wae :

If the top end was thrashed, you would have seen it in the cam caps.

i have seen plenty of Mod motors with bleeding cam bearings.  Yours didn't look like them.  They and the cam journals would have looked like someone polished them with 16 grit sandpaper.

In reply to wae :

That guy sounds like a cranky old dealer  tech.  It's not unusual for some of us (me) to remember the half dozen failures and forget the hundred  dozen that worked just fine.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

That's what I call Stage 3 of car guy ness.

Stage 1 is when you are shiny and new, and clueless, so you follow the book to the letter.  ("What's the torque spec for the air cleaner wingnut?")

Stage 2 is when you find that taking shortcuts makes the job go quicker.  I worked with someone who torqued the rear head on a 3.1l Lumina APV (remember those? Man I don't miss them, Cleveland rust is good for some things) by zipping them down with a 3/8" impact, and it worked just fine.

Stage 3 is when you have enough experience getting burned by weird random occurrences that you develop... habits.  I always drive and retorque wheels after I've had them off.  Always put a drop of Stabilant on air fuel ratio sensor connector pins. Etc.

Or it could just be someone who hates working, like seemingly half the people on iATN, whose respone to anything with over 150k miles is "the engine's worn out, just replace it"

By the way, years back I broke the choke horn off of a 2bbl Rochester by overtightening the wing nut...

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Remember the lousy Delco alternators from the mid 80's?  The ones that the rear bearings come apart on?  Did you know that those balls will sit around the #1 injector on a 2.8, and they will go into that cylinder when you pull the injectors to change the intake gaskets?  Did you know that if one ball stands on top of another, it will punch a hole in the cylinder head?  In about two seconds? And pinch the rings on that piston?

I do.  I know a lot of things...that I wish I didn't know.

wae said:

New pickup tube is ordered at the local Ferd dealer and should be ready for me to pick up this afternoon.

I do hope you're going to drive there in your pickup :)

Reminds me of what my Miata did.  Winter mornings it wouldnt register any oil pressure at all until it had heated up. I had the active-read gauge rather than the idiot light simulating a gauge setup on my 95 1.8. It wouldnt sweep with revs until it was warm.  Scared the hell out of me and I actually emailed with Keith about it. Major sign that it was all ok was that the hydraulic lifters didnt make noise or clatter.  The sender just needed to be warm to wake up. (not that I think thats your problem)

This three-stage torque sequence for the 18 (!) oil pan bolts is bullE36 M3.

In reply to wae :

Yes.  Yes it is.

I can relate. My '95 GM 4.3 V6 head torque sequence was (IIRC) 1st torque in sequence to X Ft lbs. The 2nd sequence was to XX Ft lbs. Then GM had you turn the last sequence to certain degree (i.e. 'torque to yield').

Very similar.  The first is 15 inch pounds.  Then 180 inch pounds.  Then 90 degrees.  That 15 inch pounds is just barely enough to trip my torque wrench and each bolt pretty much requires a different arrangement of socket and extensions combinations.  But that part is done, and now I just need to get the motor mount studs to find their way back in to the crossmember holes.  Cross whatever you've got for me....

I translate that to 

1- finger tight
2- nut driver tight
3- 1/4" ratchet till it feels good.

I wonder why my oil pan is leaking?

Well, it started up and sounds good.  Temp in here is much warmer than it was before - 60+ degrees.  Went to 90psi instead of the previous 80.

So far when I rev it up, it builds and hold pressure....

In reply to wae :

Congrats.  Was there a smoking gun on the pickup or o ring?