^ I forgot how bad you guys get raped. $22-24k here for both cars.
^ I forgot how bad you guys get raped. $22-24k here for both cars.
m4ff3w wrote:article said: Engine mounts and space under the hood have been included so that owners can easily switch out components.Awesome! It comes with engine mounts!
It means that even though the block and heads have been redesigned by Toyota they are still in he same location as Subaru's EJ so you could bolt a WRX or STI motor in.
HiTempguy wrote:ProDarwin wrote: What's the Genesis weigh? Apples to ApplesA car is a car, why would a sportscar weigh more than a family sedan? The Genesis is "hardly" what I'd call a sports car... a grand tourer maybe. And I'd rather have a V6 mustang any day of the year (and it's cheaper, a Genesis is $28k out the door for a base model in Canada, while a mustang is $24.5k)!
I don't recall calling it a sports car. It was in reference to Bob's complaint about the weight of a RWD Coupe. Comparing RWD coupe to RWD coupe makes much more sense than RWD Coupe to FWD econoboxes (Accent, Elantra).
Also... if it weighs 3000lbs, what are you guys going to do? Not buy it? Ok. It's not like you have a different 2012 RWD Coupe that weighs less than 3000lbs to choose from. Look at the car for what it is vs. what's out there instead of bitching about what it could be. Like it or not, cars are designed for the average person, not car enthusiasts.
Genesis coupe is 3300 for the 4 and 3400 for the 6. Not light. I also agree with Tom- as much as Moto is excited for the car (the club4ag link), there aren't any new or hard specs listed. We'll just have to wait and see.
ProDarwin wrote:HiTempguy wrote:I don't recall calling it a sports car. It was in reference to Bob's complaint about the weight of a RWD Coupe. Comparing RWD coupe to RWD coupe makes much more sense than RWD Coupe to FWD econoboxes (Accent, Elantra). Also... if it weighs 3000lbs, what are you guys going to do? Not buy it? Ok. It's not like you have a different 2012 RWD Coupe that weighs less than 3000lbs to choose from. Look at the car for what it is vs. what's out there instead of bitching about what it could be. Like it or not, cars are designed for the average person, not car enthusiasts.ProDarwin wrote: What's the Genesis weigh? Apples to ApplesA car is a car, why would a sportscar weigh more than a family sedan? The Genesis is "hardly" what I'd call a sports car... a grand tourer maybe. And I'd rather have a V6 mustang any day of the year (and it's cheaper, a Genesis is $28k out the door for a base model in Canada, while a mustang is $24.5k)!
QFT, Unfortunately.
The MRS is what, 2250lbs? I think it's time I look in that direction again.
ProDarwin wrote: Also... if it weighs 3000lbs, what are you guys going to do? Not buy it? Ok. It's not like you have a different 2012 RWD Coupe that weighs less than 3000lbs to choose from.
Actually, yes. I would be more likely to buy it if it's under that weight. If not, then I simply won't buy a new car at all. This car would be a 'want', not a 'need'.
This seems to be the part manufacturers forget when marketing a car towards enthusiasts.
Ian F wrote:ProDarwin wrote: Also... if it weighs 3000lbs, what are you guys going to do? Not buy it? Ok. It's not like you have a different 2012 RWD Coupe that weighs less than 3000lbs to choose from.Actually, yes. I would be more likely to buy it if it's under that weight. If not, then I simply won't buy a new car at all. This car would be a 'want', not a 'need'. This seems to be the part manufacturers forget when marketing a car towards enthusiasts.
They do not market a car towards enthusiasts. Enthusiasts are too small of a demographic. They do like to make it look like they are marketing towards enthusiasts however so the auto buying public can buy the car to appear to be an auto enthusiast. Reminds me a bit of the 90's when Mt. Dew decided it was extreme. They had all their X-games inspired extreme commercials on all the time. Was that marketed to a 19 year old snow boarder or 21 year old skydiver? No, the effect was that a bunch of middle aged overweight receding hairline guys and their mothers decided to start drinking Mt. Dew...because it was extreme. I think this toyaburau car is the same idea. Doesn't really have to appeal to us, they just have to say that it was designed from the ground up to appeal to us, and the average Joe will put down his Mt, Dew and head on down to the Scion dealer to buy one....or more than likely, go look at one and end up buying an xB.
lol TJ wins 2 intr3netz
HiTempguy wrote: I think the issue is that they are shooting for "sports car". Imagine if they just designed a cheap econobox that was rwd and sold it, let everyone go at it from there rather than "mandating" it be a sports car that was "highly modifiable" by the motorsports community. E36 M3, a Miata is $30k in Canada (I E36 M3 you not).
Im really...REALLY hoping to find a way to make the new Factory Five (remember that contest thread from a while back 
) Roadster a part of my stable for this reason. K.I.S.S…a lesson too many car makers have forgotten. Now we need seats that can warm our back and cool our butts independently at the same time, a car steroe that will also shellac our toenails, and a saftey system that will puff unicorn farts into the interior in an accident. No thanks. Until they get their collective heads out of their asses, Im happy with my 90s cars.
In reply to T.J.:
yeah... you're right. Plus, the Japanese manufacturers seem to have long memories and I can bet the last RX7 is mentioned every time somebody brings up the idea of producing a true hard-core sports car again.
The only company that really seems to market to enthusiasts is Lotus, and even they have been getting watered down lately in the interest of actually making money.
Bobzilla wrote:Tom Heath wrote:Hyundai dropped the Elantra to 2700lbs, the Accents are ~2500. Hell, their mid-size Sonata isn't much over that mark. Yeah... 3k for 170hp rwd coupe is NOT acceptable.DaveEstey wrote: There are plenty of cars under that weight with all the safety gizmos.Truth. My 2011 Mazda2 is under 2300 lbs.
I don't like the weight/power thing either, but it's not really that much different than many other cars that have been put out that this board tends to like as a rule.
I fail to see why it's a problem on this car. Probably just because it's a Toyota?
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I fail to see why it's a problem on this car. Probably just because it's a Toyota?
Probably because I'd buy a 2.5RS instead and drive it all year round. 
HiTempguy wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I fail to see why it's a problem on this car. Probably just because it's a Toyota?Probably because I'd buy a 2.5RS instead and drive it all year round.
I would, too. But really just because i find GC8s to be awesome cars.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I fail to see why it's a problem on this car. Probably just because it's a Toyota?
Probably 'cos of all the hype. Internet speculation would lead me to believe this car is the next Lotus 7. Or at least AE86. I haven't really been keeping up.
Even conservatively lightweight and only moderately powerful, it'll likely stack up pretty well against its nearest competitors, and still be a let-down due to all the smack talk .
Don't forget we still don't know what kind of inflated Toyota price this will have. 3000lbs, 170hp and $16k, maybe. 3000lbs, 170hp and $25k, oh hell no.
So until we know... we'll just hate on it.
^ It's a Toyota.... you know my feelings. That company still owes me a new set of shoes.
Luke wrote: Or at least AE86.
A really slow rwd econobox?
Twin-Cam AE86. A lightweight, responsive, slow (but fun-to-drive) rwd econobox.
Luke wrote:
Exactly, either make it have sporting intentions, or make it a grand tourer like the genesis/350z/370z and be done with it.
I'm thinking S2000, with more torque and less hp (say 170hp and 170ftpnds, just like, GASP, a Subaru 2.5 motor ;) ), and about the same to a little bit less weight. And moar parts bin engineering!
Edit-
The more I think about it, if they can get the curb weight to be 2800 pounds or less (s2000 is 2800 pounds 
) and have similiar specs to the Subie motor, they honestly would have a hit on their hands. The 2.5RS is a FUN car, and it's an understeering pig of a 4 door sedan. I can only imagine the same thing as a sexy roadster with right foot steering available 
HiTempguy wrote: The 2.5RS is a FUN car... I can only imagine the same thing as a sexy roadster with right foot steering available
they already made that...well at least they made something similar with about 80# or extra padding and upholstery...
just give us that with 2 less powered wheels, and a toyota badge, and I would be happy!
Ya know it's not hard to change an RS over to RWD....
HiTempguy wrote: I'm thinking S2000, with more torque and less hp (say 170hp and 170ftpnds, just like, GASP, a Subaru 2.5 motor ;) ), and about the same to a little bit less weight. And moar parts bin engineering!
The S2000 has 162lb-ft... so you just want one that makes less power? 2.5RS is slow. It takes a crap-ton of work to get to 135whp 
I've had both. Actually, currently I own a stock 06 S2000, my roommate has a well modded 2.5RS.
I'm surprised at all of the complaining. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Chances are in 10 years you guys will be snapping these up left and right as with a swap you have a 300whp RWD 2850lb car.
^ sO where did the final weight numbers come from?
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