Duke wrote:tuna55 wrote: I love OBD-II, why would you avoid it?Because at least every 2 years I have to remove my supercharger, intake tract, larger injectors, and standalone engine management, reinstall the stock parts, putt through the emissions and inspection line, then put all the fun bits back on. If the PO had started with a '94-5, it would not need to be OBD-II compliant and it would be a LOT easier to get inspected.
I forgot some of you have emissions testing.
BAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!
That sucks! My NB has been turbocharged for over a decade, but it's passed the Georgia emissions inspection every year without hassle.
I daily drove a 91 for about a year and fixed up a 96 so i have a little experience with both. I prefer the earlier engine, but not so much the earlier (89-93) chassis. The 1.6 was more rev happy, even after I jumped up to a 1.8 clutch and flywheel (+1"). The 1.8 had enough torque to chirp third gear but never wanted to rev as easily.
The early cars don't have bracing, smaller brakes, smaller rear axle - but the weight difference does add up over time depending on the other options too.
The later cars have a center stack that doesn't fall apart when you look at it too.
The 1.6's "rev faster" because they have a shorter final gear (4.30 vs 4.10). The 1.8 is a little quicker but they're both pretty darn slow.
The 1.8's are better cars overall for the reasons already mentioned. IMO the early NB's are better still.
Soma007 wrote: The 1.6's "rev faster" because they have a shorter final gear (4.30 vs 4.10).
Thanks
The only way to tell if an engine 'revs faster' or 'is easy to rev' is to place the vehicle in neutral and time the duration between RPM X and Y. Not only is it hard to do, it's pretty near irrelevant because it has nothing to do with actual driving or how it will feel in the car.
Do note that 1.8's are NOT immune to crank nose problems. Shoddy work by a PO can do in any crank nose on these cars.
Photo of my bad long nose for proof
As a point while inspecting for purchase I would try to wiggle all of the parts on the crank nose to ensure there is not a problem there. For the most part it means new engine (or new crank) if that keyway is messed up. (note that the PO on my engine was a junkyard, also note that the "loctite fix" was attempted on mine and rattle returned in 3k miles)
That said, new engines arent that expensive from a junkyard ($600-$1200 depending on condition, etc)
Apexcarver wrote: That said, new engines arent that expensive from a junkyard ($600-$1200 depending on condition, etc)
You can get LS1's that cheap. Sorta.
Apexcarver wrote: Do note that 1.8's are NOT immune to crank nose problems. Shoddy work by a PO can do in any crank nose on these cars. Photo of my bad long nose for proof
You sure that was the original motor in there? To the best of my knowledge i thought only the 91-92 EGT/Tracer/Protege 1.8s were prone to the crank nose problems.
FlightService wrote: 1.6 or 1.8I like the 1.6I like the 1.8 pollcode.com free polls
What the canoe?
Sorry thought I found a quick HTML poll code we could post but instead it gave a bunch of garbage.
Must be a filter or something.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: You sure that was the original motor in there? To the best of my knowledge i thought only the 91-92 EGT/Tracer/Protege 1.8s were prone to the crank nose problems.
It is a 96 miata motor (from junkyard, all accessories are miata parts) that was put in my 95. (OBD change)
^Your ignorance is showing. The BP was available in other cars in America years before it showed up in the Miata.
Not to mention, Mazda used it extensively overseas in cars that we couldn't even get here.
I'm losing brain cells.
In reply to djhives:
You're an idiot. Everybody is thinking it, but I'm gonna say it. You = IDIOT. The 1.8 was available in dozens of different sporty cars all over the world. It was NOT developed just for the US. It also does not "rev faster".
It's a better engine because it has less crank issues, utilizes coil-on-plug ignition, has a sturdier CAS, and has a more usable power band.
Javelin wrote: In reply to djhives: You're an idiot. Everybody is thinking it, but I'm gonna say it. You = IDIOT. The 1.8 was available in dozens of different sporty cars all over the world. It was NOT developed just for the US. It also does not "rev faster". It's a better engine because it has less crank issues, utilizes coil-on-plug ignition, has a sturdier CAS, and has a more usable power band.
Not to mention it's embarrassing when your 91 Miata gets destroyed on anything resembling straight roads by a 91 Escort GT/Protege LX/Tracer LTS/Escort LX-E.
Ever think that Mazda realized it had overlapped markets/performance? And not in a good way? (Doubt that's really exactly what happened, but it's plausible.)
djhives wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: ^Your ignorance is showing. The BP was available in other cars in America years before it showed up in the Miata. Not to mention, Mazda used it extensively overseas in cars that we couldn't even get here. I'm losing brain cells.dude, check your sub par reading comprehension -- I never said the 1.8 wasnt in OTHER cars - it was PUT into the miata to satisfy AMERICAN power demand ONLY - im loosing more braincells than you reading your trash
I'm sorry. I'm not sure how else you could possibly interpret this quote from you:
YOU said: The 1.6 is the better engine. Let you not forget that the 1.8 is the so called "AMERICAN ENGINE" -- ie, mazda introduced it ONLY in the amrican market to satisfy dull sheeple american driving characteristics which are mainly POWER getting on long boring interstates. THe 1.8 wasnt released in many markets.
Problem?
djhives wrote:Javelin wrote: In reply to djhives: You're an idiot. Everybody is thinking it, but I'm gonna say it. You = IDIOT. The 1.8 was available in dozens of different sporty cars all over the world. It was NOT developed just for the US. It also does not "rev faster". It's a better engine because it has less crank issues, utilizes coil-on-plug ignition, has a sturdier CAS, and has a more usable power band.Dude- whos everybody? The HERD YOU BELONG TO -- sorry dude I dont play your sheep game - I have my OWN opinions -- like I told the guy above, I DID NOT SAY the 1.8 wasnt in other cars - it was PUT into the miata to satisfy power demands. Mazda could have put the 1.8 in the miata in 89 - but DIDNT becasue it was perfect... the 1.6 revs faster - I got BOTH - they're two different feels! And who cares about the CAS on the 1.6 - its not a make or break deal -- other than the short nose on the early 1.6, the 8 slotted 1.6 feels better and is just as reliable as the 1.8 --- if you jsut want power do the larger 1.8 but the balance is thrown off in more ways than one
No they couldn't have. For some pretty blatantly obvious reasons. The most obvious being that the 1.8 was in existence yet. But, they already had the B6, thanks to the 323/Familia.
I'm curious how the balance is thrown off when you put the "larger" 1.8 in... you think it weighs appreciably more or something?
djhives wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:Dude, seriously -- lol - re read it. the 1.8 was introduced IN THE MIATA for american power 'needs'... thats the point of the 1.8 NOTHING MORE -- so its up to the buyer to decide for more power of more REV and balance... drive a 1.6 and a 1.8 tell me the differences you feel...djhives wrote:I'm sorry. I'm not sure how else you could possibly interpret this quote from you:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: ^Your ignorance is showing. The BP was available in other cars in America years before it showed up in the Miata. Not to mention, Mazda used it extensively overseas in cars that we couldn't even get here. I'm losing brain cells.dude, check your sub par reading comprehension -- I never said the 1.8 wasnt in OTHER cars - it was PUT into the miata to satisfy AMERICAN power demand ONLY - im loosing more braincells than you reading your trashYOU said: The 1.6 is the better engine. Let you not forget that the 1.8 is the so called "AMERICAN ENGINE" -- ie, mazda introduced it ONLY in the amrican market to satisfy dull sheeple american driving characteristics which are mainly POWER getting on long boring interstates. THe 1.8 wasnt released in many markets.Problem?
One is mind-numbingly slow, and one is very slightly less mind-numbingly slow.
In reply to djhives:
Wait a min, I wanted to say this in the duck thread...
So we are supposed to believe that you know THE history of the Miata, but you don't know the Gulf livery?
Seriously?
If you don't know about one of THE most iconic liveries on a car, there's no way I can believe anything you claim to be true, whether they are correct or not.
What you think are facts are purely your opinion, which now has zero credibility.
Besides, miata.net has better info than that. Useless info from you.
Buy the best car you can afford
That being said normally aspirated a 1.6 with intake header and exhaust makes for a really nice combo. On the right road like Deals Gap it is a blast.
Counterpoint, if you go FI, get a 1.8. Better differential, more options to build big HPs
In reply to djhives:
Have you made your selve serving opinion well known at Miata.net?
That's all it is, an opinion.
I'm sure there are sponsors over there who love entertian your ideas.
djhives wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:Dude, they could have put ANY engine into the miata in 89 - they chose the best for that very reason. The 1.8 does FEEL different! its a MIATA - a shock tower brace and minute tire air pressure changes make HUGE differences on a super light vehicle-- so of course it makes a difference I have BOTH and they feel night and day (relativley speaking of course) Look im not a FAN-BOY -- I like ALL cars - so I dont take sides with this "mine is better than yours just becasue its what I own" I got 2 1.8s and 1 1.6 miatas, fords, Isuzus - all types of cehicles becasue I LOVE CARS -- so I just call things for what they are... 1.8 MORE POWER ... 1.6 MORE RAW FEELING/BALANCED/REV HAPPY when i rev my 1.8 it GOES there but it doesnt FEEEEEL like its getting there.... Yes, sure I moved, and moved faster than the 1.6 -- but in the 1.6 I can FEEL every last RPM all the way through... lol no wonder why Mada put the fake oil pressure guage on the 1.8 NAs...lol.... they figured NOBODY WOULD KNOW THE DIFFERENCE... to me the feeling is just as "MINUTE" as that fake oil pressure guage -- in the one with the real guage it just FEEELS like a sports car! On my 1.8 that oil pressure guage not moving just pisses me off... but its not psycological - the 1.8 is FASTER the 1.6 is FUNNER the 1.8 should have been turbocharged from the factorydjhives wrote:No they couldn't have. For some pretty blatantly obvious reasons. The most obvious being that the 1.8 was in existence yet. But, they already had the B6, thanks to the 323/Familia. I'm curious how the balance is thrown off when you put the "larger" 1.8 in... you think it weighs appreciably more or something?Javelin wrote: In reply to djhives: You're an idiot. Everybody is thinking it, but I'm gonna say it. You = IDIOT. The 1.8 was available in dozens of different sporty cars all over the world. It was NOT developed just for the US. It also does not "rev faster". It's a better engine because it has less crank issues, utilizes coil-on-plug ignition, has a sturdier CAS, and has a more usable power band.Dude- whos everybody? The HERD YOU BELONG TO -- sorry dude I dont play your sheep game - I have my OWN opinions -- like I told the guy above, I DID NOT SAY the 1.8 wasnt in other cars - it was PUT into the miata to satisfy power demands. Mazda could have put the 1.8 in the miata in 89 - but DIDNT becasue it was perfect... the 1.6 revs faster - I got BOTH - they're two different feels! And who cares about the CAS on the 1.6 - its not a make or break deal -- other than the short nose on the early 1.6, the 8 slotted 1.6 feels better and is just as reliable as the 1.8 --- if you jsut want power do the larger 1.8 but the balance is thrown off in more ways than one
Words fail me. I hope your stay is truncated in very short order.
djhives wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: drive a 1.6 and a 1.8 tell me the differences you feel...One is mind-numbingly slow, and one is very slightly less mind-numbingly slow.
And thats WHAT IM SAYING!
Not so much.
djhives wrote: Sorry dude, I dont think
They teach thinking over at Miata.net.
You may even learn something about Miatas, cars, and yourself.
djhives wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:LOL - I hope YOUR stay is truncated in very short order as well! Sorry dude, I dont think like the masses - you ought to try thinking about miatas on your own, instead of following the "a sponsor on miatanet said it was true so it is" FLOCK.djhives wrote:Words fail me. I hope your stay is truncated in very short order.92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:Dude, they could have put ANY engine into the miata in 89 - they chose the best for that very reason. The 1.8 does FEEL different! its a MIATA - a shock tower brace and minute tire air pressure changes make HUGE differences on a super light vehicle-- so of course it makes a difference I have BOTH and they feel night and day (relativley speaking of course) Look im not a FAN-BOY -- I like ALL cars - so I dont take sides with this "mine is better than yours just becasue its what I own" I got 2 1.8s and 1 1.6 miatas, fords, Isuzus - all types of cehicles becasue I LOVE CARS -- so I just call things for what they are... 1.8 MORE POWER ... 1.6 MORE RAW FEELING/BALANCED/REV HAPPY when i rev my 1.8 it GOES there but it doesnt FEEEEEL like its getting there.... Yes, sure I moved, and moved faster than the 1.6 -- but in the 1.6 I can FEEL every last RPM all the way through... lol no wonder why Mada put the fake oil pressure guage on the 1.8 NAs...lol.... they figured NOBODY WOULD KNOW THE DIFFERENCE... to me the feeling is just as "MINUTE" as that fake oil pressure guage -- in the one with the real guage it just FEEELS like a sports car! On my 1.8 that oil pressure guage not moving just pisses me off... but its not psycological - the 1.8 is FASTER the 1.6 is FUNNER the 1.8 should have been turbocharged from the factorydjhives wrote:No they couldn't have. For some pretty blatantly obvious reasons. The most obvious being that the 1.8 was in existence yet. But, they already had the B6, thanks to the 323/Familia. I'm curious how the balance is thrown off when you put the "larger" 1.8 in... you think it weighs appreciably more or something?Javelin wrote: In reply to djhives: You're an idiot. Everybody is thinking it, but I'm gonna say it. You = IDIOT. The 1.8 was available in dozens of different sporty cars all over the world. It was NOT developed just for the US. It also does not "rev faster". It's a better engine because it has less crank issues, utilizes coil-on-plug ignition, has a sturdier CAS, and has a more usable power band.Dude- whos everybody? The HERD YOU BELONG TO -- sorry dude I dont play your sheep game - I have my OWN opinions -- like I told the guy above, I DID NOT SAY the 1.8 wasnt in other cars - it was PUT into the miata to satisfy power demands. Mazda could have put the 1.8 in the miata in 89 - but DIDNT becasue it was perfect... the 1.6 revs faster - I got BOTH - they're two different feels! And who cares about the CAS on the 1.6 - its not a make or break deal -- other than the short nose on the early 1.6, the 8 slotted 1.6 feels better and is just as reliable as the 1.8 --- if you jsut want power do the larger 1.8 but the balance is thrown off in more ways than one
If you had a clue about what and/or you were talking to, or merely had the wherewithall to click the "garage" portion in my username, you'll find that i have no problem disagreeing with anyone or going outside the "norm" when it comes to modifying cars.
Nor in fact, do i even currently own a miata. Nor am i a member of any Miata forums. My stay will not be truncated. I'm kindof a big deal. 
imarcr2 wrote: Buy the best car you can afford That being said normally aspirated a 1.6 with intake header and exhaust makes for a really nice combo. On the right road like Deals Gap it is a blast. Counterpoint, if you go FI, get a 1.8. Better differential, more options to build big HPs
Thanks man, that's a great comment. I think you're more productive in four lines than the rest of the last two pages combined. Do the header and intake swap from 1.8 to 1.6?
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