Next generation Miata likely to be electrified

I've said it elsewhere but I really think that current generation or cars launching this year will be the last that are considered traditional gas engined manual Transmission sports cars.  Many will say that ship sailed already but I don't think you will be able to buy anything like the current Miata or next gen GT86/BRZ (or other similar MT cars) in 5 years.  

I don't doubt that there will be fun to be had and exciting engaging cars of some type but I think we have reached an intersection of environmental policy, consumer trends, business market, and FMVSS that make producing cars like that very difficult if not impossible.   

It's not doom and gloom it's just reality. 

Any future on road start-ups will be forced into electric vehicles (which ironically makes it easier for them to exist so that's a benefit).   

Excuse me while I go configure a new BRZ and put it on order..

A Prius weighs about 3,000. If they used the electric system from that, it would be easy to get an electric Miata under 3k.

If it balloons the weight up to the 2600lb range but lowers the COG to increase mechanical grip and makes 0-60 come down to the 4.7-5.2 range and makes for mileage in the 45 mpg range, I'd be complaining all the way to the dealership, deposit in hand. 

Just don't give it some much power that a dual clutch option is faster than a manual in all situations. Some of us mere morals enjoy driving. Miata gets this, they're one of two manufacturers that I trust in this regard. 

dean1484 said:

You could do something like Mercedes did in the s400 hybrid.   Replace the torque converter or in this case the flywheel with an electric motor and put a light-weight, high-capacity lithium-ion battery in the trunk (just like the Merc did. The system was used to assist in acceleration and could also rejen. It was not meant to power the car full time it instead only assisted when the ICE was the least fuel efficient. 

Put this in a Miata and add 50/50 torques and hp off the line or when pulling out of corners would be a game changer for Miata. 

There's a company doing exactly this for Porsche 911s. It would be great in a Miata.

Driven5 said:

Interesting. Last I heard, Mazda believed that their ICE advancements would keep up with BEV's... I wonder if the implication is that BEV technology is simply advancing faster than they had expected, or they're not making the strides they had hoped for?

However, a large part of all of this is the overall emissions side, and I'm not sure that the well-to-wheels of electric power generation is improving that dramatically. So perhaps just a marketing move, or are ICE emissions requirements tightening that quickly too?

Euro CO2 emissions killed the RX-8.

Imagine an electric RX-8.

Mazda has said publicly all their cars are going to be electric in some form or fashion by 2030 whether that is hybrid or full electric. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Driven5 said:

Interesting. Last I heard, Mazda believed that their ICE advancements would keep up with BEV's... I wonder if the implication is that BEV technology is simply advancing faster than they had expected, or they're not making the strides they had hoped for?

However, a large part of all of this is the overall emissions side, and I'm not sure that the well-to-wheels of electric power generation is improving that dramatically. So perhaps just a marketing move, or are ICE emissions requirements tightening that quickly too?

Euro CO2 emissions killed the RX-8.

Imagine an electric RX-8.

"I decided to devote my life to it, and not get sidetracked by all the other bullE36M3 that life has to offer." - Cliff Burton

It'd still be a rotary of sorts!

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

ICEs go boing boing boing but the electric motor goes hmmmm.

"That rotary engine gives you quiet power!"

Where will I install my voodoo knob?

There are a handful traits that make a Miata a Miata.  Light weight. Light clutch. Great shifter. Gocart-esqe steering. To sum it up, the Miata is all about driver engagement. 
 

How do you get those  attributes in an electric car? I don't see it happening. They might achieve relatively light weight compared to other electrics. I don't see driver engagement being achievable. 
 

In my mind, the electrics are sort of like a Cadillac, Lexus, or a Mercedes, fast, quiet; built for people who like high quality appliances,  zero g recliners, and status symbols. Not car enthusiasts. No offense to folks that like that sort of thing. I just don't see getting a sports car out of that formula. 

So the next generation will be an NE (E or electric)? 

Color me interested. I'm peripherally aware of the Toyota solid state battery developments. How do they compare to what we have now for mass / energy storage capacity? 

I could forsee a mild hybrid with a solid state battery to keep the mass down as very successful. As others have noted the instant torque addition a low rpm would be welcome. A hybrid would allow it to retain the all important manual transmission for at least another generation too. 

In reply to nocones :

Now there are rumors of a Lexus-branded 86 hybrid going around as well:

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/24/toyota-gr-86/

On the whole I am totally okay with the idea of more hybrid/EV sports car options. I don't think the CR-Z failed because a sports hybrid fundamentally won't work, I think it failed because it was poorly executed and half-assed.

I think right now we are in a phase like the transition from horseback riding to early motor vehicles. "You'll never replicate the thrill of a galloping steed, the challenge of wrangling a beast over a series of hurdles," etc...

Electric vehicles are certainly a paradigm shift but I think to say that they can't be engaging shows a lack of imagination.

Not sure why anyone would have a problem with a MX5 EV. They managed it on the original Tesla/Lotus platform and using previous generation battery packs, so they should be able to do it on the MX5 which isn't as small as the first gen Tesla Roadster was .

And it opens up the possibility of getting what everyone always asked for (in vain) more power.

Tesla made about 2500 of the original Roadsters and they were sold worldwide. They are definitely not down to GRM project car price points but are pretty close to six digits. There have been a couple of very significant hardware changes offered for them over the years, such as a battery pack with about 50% more capacity. Does that answer some of your questions? They're more akin to a Ferrari than an MG in terms of support and value and production numbers.

One of them went past Mars ;)

I like electric cars. And I like cars that make unnecessary noise, or that have torque, or that need to be wound out to perform because they have no torque, or are light, or are not light. It's possible to like all of these things, and I won't say an electric (or more likely, hybridized) Miata will be no fun until I have a chance to try one.

Little known fact, the backside of a dogecoin is a Tesla roadster going straight to the moon. 

In reply to RichardSIA :

As an old geezer I love pistons and camshafts.  Their relationship to steam engines is comforting.  
     My thoughts about EV's is the reliability and basic simplicity of an electric motor compared to sliding pistons and camshafts etc. 

   It will be a good thing and the teenager that is my soul  will still have toys to play with. Thank goodness for Vintage racing!!!!  

In reply to RichardSIA :

Dude. You're going to have a difficult next 20 years. Don't give yourself an aneurysm. It's gonna be OK. 

spudz76 said:

If they could keep the weight down and add some form of lightweight system that added 30 lb/ft, that would be awesome.  Especially if they kept the batteries down low and helped the CoG

Couldn't they do that using an alternator assist like the dodge etorque?

90 - 130 lb-ft

Its technically "electrified", adds less weight than a passenger, and could provide an extra push when needed.

In reply to RichardSIA :

29% of greenhouse gases come from cars and global warming is becoming an increasing problem. Something has to change as much as it pains me to see ICE go away. 

tester (Forum Supporter) said:

There are a handful traits that make a Miata a Miata.  Light weight. Light clutch. Great shifter. Gocart-esqe steering. To sum it up, the Miata is all about driver engagement. 
 

How do you get those  attributes in an electric car? I don't see it happening. They might achieve relatively light weight compared to other electrics. I don't see driver engagement being achievable. 
 

In my mind, the electrics are sort of like a Cadillac, Lexus, or a Mercedes, fast, quiet; built for people who like high quality appliances,  zero g recliners, and status symbols. Not car enthusiasts. No offense to folks that like that sort of thing. I just don't see getting a sports car out of that formula. 

 

Clearly you haven't driven a Tesla to lay your fears to rest.  Even the cheap mundane ones are brisk and can corner with alacrity    
   The top one, with 1020 horsepower is too fast for you.  
     Take a 427 Cobra and give it speed pills and that's the potential of electrics.  Will there be cheap, dull, electrics? Sure just like there are cheap dull ICE's. 

RichardSIA said:

Just shopped some parts for the Morris Minor. Shocked at the sudden price increases.

IF, and it IS still an if, the "EV Revolution" actually comes to pass all support for ICE cars, classic included, will naturally diminish drastically. So the $60 headlamp switch becomes $200, or just NLA.

All those guys and gals looking to leave their cherished ICE cars to their kids or grand-kids? Um, not seeing a happy day there, the proverbial "White Elephant" comes to mind. If you are not familiar with that I think it can still be Googled, unless scrubbed for failure to be PC.

I've updated my tagline, let no one ever claim that the EV edicts were just accepted without resistance!

Stuff goes NLA for every car eventually, it's a realistic result of shifting supply and demand as time marches on. Part of the reason I tired of owning an E28 and sold it is because basic stuff is becoming impossible to find, it's not that EVs are suffocating them out of existence, they are just niche old cars. This seems kind of like blaming the iPhone because you can't buy parts for a Commodore Amiga in 2021.

Even without EVs involved there is not exactly a shortage of old tin nobody wants. The bottom fell out of the market for Model Ts as generations have gotten younger, now we are starting to see a decline in the market for old British cars, etc. Times change, tastes change, and people generally are enthusiastic about the stuff that was cool when they were young, not the stuff that was cool when their grandparents were young.

I get that you are not a fan of EVs but it seems like you are placing a lot of blame on their shoulders for things that are really more circumstantial in nature.

volvoclearinghouse said:

If anyone is going to offer the first mass-production, widely-available manual transmission electric car, Mazda will.  *fingers crossed*

A shiftable transmission doesn't make sense for electric motors, but I guess if you really wanted, you could get a mod with an H gate "shifter" that reduces torque by 20-30% with every "upshift".

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I could see Mazda doing something with paddle-adjustable regen braking that's pretty fun, or maybe using a 2-speed transaxle like the Taycan and allowing a degree of driver involvement.

93EXCivic said:

In reply to RichardSIA :

29% of greenhouse gases come from cars and global warming is becoming an increasing problem. Something has to change as much as it pains me to see ICE go away. 

EPA figures