One car to teach with, an alternative answer?

I think I'm going to shuffle around the fleet. I'm looking to jetisson several cars that are single purpose machines and replace them with one car that is semi functional at rallycross, autocross, track days (for fun) and teaching my kids to drive as well as helping to teach students at AX and RX events.
The obvious answer is Miata, but I just don't like them. I may end up with one anyway, but help me think of other options.
I'm not partial to FWD or RWD, but I want to stay away from Subaru's for reasons, so let's ignore AWD for now. Manual transmission is a must as a teaching tool for my kids. Cheaper is better, but let's say I have around 5k to play with, but that can move. The two top contenders (which are both out of my price range) are 006+ Civic Si, or a 2005+ Mustang GT. I've driven the Civic and love them. Great solid cars which are amazing to drive in the dirt and competent everywhere else. Good mileage, good aftermarket. The Mustang works everywhere, sounds great, and I could gradually upgrade the car toward NASA Spec Iron which is a place I'd love to be racing in 5-7 years. The Civic is a more appropriate car to put kids in, the Mustang may be practically uninsurable with teens.
What else should I think about? Move back a generation with Mustangs? A truly cheap FWD hatch?

Just to make sure we all understand your criteria, you're looking at newer cars (>2000)?

E46?

Hmmmm, "Mustangy" flavor but shying away from the V-8 for insurance reasons.....sensible. How about a 240SX? You'll have to pay the "drift-yo" tax to get a good one but they drive kinda like a big Miata and are easy to work on.

$5k will get you a very nice E46 325. They are very hospitable places to spend time for adults driving to the track hundreds of miles away. Fun to drive, useful, pretty capable but not the kind of fast you are afraid to let your kids drive around in. Great safety rating in case they do decide to get a little punchy as well. Strong aftermarket. An LS or S54 fits easily when you get bored.

You can get in an E36 M3 for that money too - which needs no introduction for what you want to use it for... but at that price point I think it will be needy. The cheap ones around here seem to all be trashed out pretty well.

Also, there is a nice unmolested MR2 Turbo in the open classifieds that caught my attention last night while PUI. IIRC it was 7K+ but... they are very cool.

WRX!!!......darnit....

Maybe look into some of the Ford products, Focus SVT? Decent car, not too much power to handle, can get a manual. Mazda 3? I'd try to stay in a hatch for an everything car, carry parts, tools, tires, etc.

Maybe step back to an E37'era 318 hatch?

This sounds like the article that GRM just did where they ended up with the focus SVT.

The cheapest Focus with stick you can find + go fast parts?

Last generation Celica? Although the Focus is a good answer too.

Can an E46 be reliably rallycrossed? I know an E36 can, but my impression was that you'd end up picking up bits and pieces of an E46 if you tried it.
I had a Focus new in 2001, I liked the car. The only hesitation with slow econo cars is ending up at the way back on track stuff. Not a huge issue if I stay in DE groups, but I have a TT license, and it's not even close to fun to have the fast cars closing on you at 50+ mph by lap 3. It's also lonely at the back of the TT group. Not a HUGE concern, but one of the reasons the Civic is going. A V6 Mustang is classed with the Civic in TT and would be able to autocross and rallycross with All Terrains which would be nice. It looks like the V8 is only a $2-2500 premium over the V6 car though.

I'm not sure that "TT-competitive" and "insurable with teenagers" is achievable with the same car. What about a 4th or 5th gen Honda Prelude?

In reply to mazdeuce:

Aside from the reinforcement to the rear subframe mounting area the E46 needs (which, in truth the E36 also needed) - I think it is a more solid car than the E36 in every way. That solidity comes with an approx 100lb penalty over the same E36 but... if you can get one w/ no sunroof and/or are willing to do a little seat replacement and stripping they can be made just as light mod for mod. It has a power and brake bump over the E36 that gives it roughly the same performance.

It will out-perform a six cylinder mustang on a race track right out of the box. I'm not sure how you would reconcile the damper/springs on any car to get both excellent track/ax performance and rallycross range but regardless it's going to out perform a solid axle anywhere there are bumps.

I don't know much about the Ford 6 motor but I'll just go ahead and guess it has more potential and much more cost effectively. The aftermarket is also flush with ways to make them go fast around corners but if I was going that way I would consider ponying up the $ for a v8 and putting all the money into the handling end of the business.

The obvious answer here is Bug-Eye WRX but that may be out of your price range. The problem you have is most are out of price point. At least the ones worth buying.

In that price point, I would also look at the Gen 5 Prelude. It's a little heavy but it's got a good torquey motor, good support, and usually in that price point.

You can find a S197 mustang at the top end of that range with something like this: http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5509528721.html

keep in mind, to teach the love of driving, you probably want something that is fun on the street.

I love my focus svt, and in fully stock form it is competitive in local rally and autocrosses. prob would be slow on track though. (cant imagine its much if any slower than a similar civic though).

In reply to bmw88rider:

And that Mustang is the problem. I'm right in the heart of cheap Mustang territory. They're cheap, plentiful and fun.

Robbie wrote: keep in mind, to teach the love of driving, you probably want something that is fun on the street. I love my focus svt, and in fully stock form it is competitive in local rally and autocrosses. prob would be slow on track though. (cant imagine its much if any slower than a similar civic though).

2001 - 2011 Foci can be astonishingly fast on the tighter big tracks with shorter straights (less than 1500 feet). They have really good suspension geometry for a Mac Strut FWD car, and there is a ton of performance parts of all kinds. It really is stupid easy to get a (U.S)MK1 or MK2 suspension sorted out well enough to put the spank on them Honda and VeeDub folks in the corners.

Then go for it. I loved learning to really drive in my 4 eye 5.0 mustang as a teen (85).

You can run it in ESP or STX for autox. For rallyx, Well I really don't know there. As a track car, there is enough HP to keep it interesting and parts will not break the bank.

Wildscot, The problem with Texas track days are you very rarely see Hondas and VeeDubs. All the ones I've worked have been Miata, Porsche, BMW, and pony cars. Very very few small hatchbacks outside of the turbo hot hatches.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Which one of your wagons can I call dibs on???

petegossett wrote: In reply to mazdeuce: Which one of your wagons can I call dibs on???

Those are the family cars.

bmw88rider wrote: Then go for it. I loved learning to really drive in my 4 eye 5.0 mustang as a teen (85). You can run it in ESP or STX for autox. For rallyx, Well I really don't know there. As a track car, there is enough HP to keep it interesting and parts will not break the bank. Wildscot, The problem with Texas track days are you very rarely see Hondas and VeeDubs. All the ones I've worked have been Miata, Porsche, BMW, and pony cars. Very very few small hatchbacks outside of the turbo hot hatches.

I don't mind being near the back for DE stuff, but for TT it's less fun, and as pointed out above, the small hatch contingent is pretty nonexistent at the events I run. If I'm going to run. NASA TTE, I might as well run a Miata. The RWD group at rallycross is a fun group of guys.

A Mazda 2

You know... kids love 964s and they cruise, ax/track day/TT really well. Are you sure you don't just need a POS to rally-x with?

KyAllroad wrote: Hmmmm, "Mustangy" flavor but shying away from the V-8 for insurance reasons.....sensible. How about a 240SX? You'll have to pay the "drift-yo" tax to get a good one but they drive kinda like a big Miata and are easy to work on.

I would call and get quotes.

My BRZ is more expensive to insure than my Coyote powered Mustang.

I read this, and assuming you dont need more passengers, i would think a little checkbook massage on your fb would fit the bill. Unless you're just bored with all your toys. (Given the selection, im not surprised).

Fbody or mustang.

I had an fbody and terrible driving record at 18, insurance wasnt too bad