Got to go for some instructor laps around pmp this weekend. It exceeded my expectations, I really liked the layout and think it will be a truly great racetrack. It has a TON of elevation change and some really nuanced sections that will take a bit of time to learn, I can't wait to go around there on my bike!
If you are in New England you really should check it out. We should take advantage of this opportunity and support this cool new venue.
I have heard that the runoff areas are not particularly generous. Is that accurate?
Felt safer than lrp to me. Some areas you wouldnt want to go off though.
Was there with HOD on Friday, the 15th. That's Palmer's third day of having events. You might say I have a love-hate relationship with it and with management. There is sure a lot of Jersey barrier or K wall and nothing else except granite and dirt. What is with that pit in entrance and the wall ending right there? Surely the designer can do better. I'm thinking about driver safety. The entrance is narrow and the wall isn't going to budge if hit head-on. Though there are barrels there I don't like it. Not enough cushion. Your ideal line has you going straight at the pit wall as you try and make as big a radius as possible on the straightaway. If racing, a nudge or swerve could send a car right into it. On this straight you are in a concrete tunnel. You could easily veer left or right and go right into the barrier, head-on. Plus, on Friday the "straight" was so dirty that even a good line was dirt-greasy. I could not get sand off my Continental slicks and get them to heat up and really work. This made me uncomfortable at 125 on that curved straight, as if I was at the limits in the rain and trying to turn. Only one car went completely off at T12 and there it hit tires. Everywhere the track was very dusty-dirty and in spots had rocks the size of golf balls thrown out on the track. Not good. During the driver's meeting they said they would stop a session and bring cars in to sweep the track of someone kicked dirt or rocks onto the track. They never did that. They are supposed to install curbing, signage and grow grass. The paddocks are supposed to get paved (I believe). Would have been a mess if it had rained. There's almost no spare asphalt to park on. HOD allowed a few "special people" to park on the edges of the roads and that gummed things up. It was hard to turn left into the paddock because of one jerk parking right there, and they didn't ask him to move! The paddock was bad enough as it was with a rough dirt surface and lots of rocks to contend with. I felt sorry for the BMW club event because they got rain yesterday! It is a fun roller coaster track though. I find it quite challenging. I hope they get it more presentable this season. I'm not thrilled about the conditions right now.
I saw the slow lap video provided by the track owner.
It looked like a great layout, but not a ton of run-offs, and a lot of exposed soil from the construction at this point.
Woody wrote: I have heard that the runoff areas are not particularly generous. Is that accurate?
Yes, but no worse than most of Watkins Glen. Think of it as a motocross track with asphalt on it for now.
Grass, curbing and a whole bunch of other stuff will come in time, but the basic layout is neat and challenging. The track has nice flow and will make for a good bike event.
There are no amenities yet either, it's BYO-everything.
sesto elemento wrote: Felt safer than lrp to me.
LRP, as in Lime Rock Park, as in probably the most dangerous track in the US? That doesn't say much 
In reply to GameboyRMH:
Is Nelson Ledges still open? (I thought basically the same thing when Lime Rock was brought up as a reference point.
GameboyRMH wrote:sesto elemento wrote: Felt safer than lrp to me.LRP, as in Lime Rock Park, as in probably the most dangerous track in the US? That doesn't say much
Oh, really? That's the first time I've ever heard that accusation. Sure, there have been a few deaths over nearly 60 years of racing there, but I didn't think significantly more than other US tracks. Is your claim based on some type of actual statistical data such as number of deaths, or injuries, or crashes per racing mile, or credible testimony from respected professional drivers who have raced there as well as every other track in the US, or some other less quantifiable conjecture?
Drive smart, none of it matters any where near as much. i think a lot of folks feel like superman when they strap on a helmet, I dont want to bend my e36m3 up, I dont want to get hurt or hurt someone else. I think racing is dangerous, I do what I can to minimize danger and hope the venue does too. Hopefully these tracks will continue to evolve and safety should be part of that. I hope they can figure out spectator e36m3 too, lots of money to be made selling spectator passes, hopefully camping too.
sesto elemento wrote: Drive smart, none of it matters any where near as much. i think a lot of folks feel like superman when they strap on a helmet, I dont want to bend my e36m3 up, I dont want to get hurt or hurt someone else. I think racing is dangerous, I do what I can to minimize danger and hope the venue does too.
Well stated Sesto.
The track has only been in operation for 2 weeks now, please give them a break on fit & finish vs the 50 year old tracks in the area. They'll catch up on the trimmings over time, but they're off to a good start with a really neat & challenging layout. In the meantime, take it easy out there, don't drop a wheel and stay away from the pit-in wall.
How much more grassroots can you get than a track built by enthusiast/amateur racers for amateur racers? As Sesto said at the top - they should be supported for their efforts.
There are a ton of videos out there already, an ITA Miata might be a good example:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5KBdazDJhE
I'm pretty excited about this place, and it's only 20 miles from my place! I now have Thompson and Palmer within a 30 mile radius, it's almost not fair :)
From what I heard it's LATE APEX ALL THE THINGS. Did you have the same experience?
Dashpot offered this link:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5KBdazDJhE
From the video this looks like a very interesting layout. And with the elevation changes, there seems to be a lot of great spectator viewing areas, sort of a miniature Nurburgring Nordschleife. Just needs graffiti on the track surface! So it looks like it could be a spectator-friendly track (like LRP). I truly hope it thrives and they can add events and that the facility is expanded with spectator amenities. Palmer is about an hour and a half drive for me, Thompson is the closest to me at 45 mins. LRP is three hours. (I personally hope they all survive and thrive).
WonkoTheSane wrote: I'm pretty excited about this place, and it's only 20 miles from my place! I now have Thompson and Palmer within a 30 mile radius, it's almost not fair :)
I'm excited too. Three (four counting NHIS in Loudon, NH) road racing venues within reasonable driving distance from where I live in RI is fantastic. The only potential problem could be events. Are there enough to fill the calendars of all these tracks? LRP and Thompson both already have excellent Vintage weekends, both have SCCA racing. LRP has a couple big pro events. Thompson is getting creative and adding joint venture club racing weekends, and also added a LeMons race in August. Palmer can't live on track days alone, and its ripe for spectator events. But will they be able to do that, and if they can, at what expense to the others?
Gary wrote:GameboyRMH wrote:Oh, really? That's the first time I've ever heard that accusation. Sure, there have been a few deaths over nearly 60 years of racing there, but I didn't think significantly more than other US tracks. Is your claim based on some type of actual statistical data such as number of deaths, or injuries, or crashes per racing mile, or credible testimony from respected professional drivers who have raced there as well as every other track in the US, or some other less quantifiable conjecture?sesto elemento wrote: Felt safer than lrp to me.LRP, as in Lime Rock Park, as in probably the most dangerous track in the US? That doesn't say much
How many other tracks give you so many opportunities to go just a few car-widths off the edge of the pavement and run into a patch of big ol' trees or even a forest? And no I haven't spoken to anyone who's driven at every track in the US, but in terms of layout safety I'd like to see anyone argue that Lime Rock doesn't belong on the bad end of the naughty list. I'm not saying it's a deathtrap, but other tracks have been modernizing to improve safety and Lime Rock has remained "historic" in that area.
DaveEstey wrote: From what I heard it's LATE APEX ALL THE THINGS. Did you have the same experience?
Yup
GameboyRMH wrote:
"... other tracks have been modernizing to improve safety and Lime Rock has remained 'historic' in that area."
That's simply not true. And I think Skip Barber and others would vehemently disagree with that statement. There definitely have been significant safety improvements made at Lime Rock over the years. There is ample runoff in Big Bend and the esses, improved from the past. There are no trees near the track. There is no "forest" to run into unless one accidentally launches into flight over the Armco and into it, as John Morton did thirty years ago. And the chicane was subsequently implemented to alleviate that from happening again. Sure, there's Armco relatively close to the track on No Name (like Palmer, Watkins Glen, and a lot of other tracks), and there's a significant pucker factor for novice drivers at the bottom of the diving turn onto the main straight. But that can't be reason to condemn Lime Rock to having "historic" safety measures. What would be your recommendations to Skip Barber?
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