RX7 SBF. What gen?

Case in point...

http://portland.craigslist.org/nco/cto/906075350.html

P71 wrote: Except you can actually build a very nice 302/T5 FB RX-7 for under $3000 and you can't even touch a decent FC shell for that. If you wanted to be really cheap I bet a 302 FB can be done for under $1000 and still be HPDE worthy.

The car you just posted is a running/driving FC for $2500. Your previous quote (above) mentioned that decent FC shells are $3k.

I see FC shells for sub-$1k regularly.

Such as: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=786417

Running on one rotor with a toasted clutch spells shell to me...

pwned....

Sorry but can't agree with the FC preference, they are heavier, have at best flawed suspension, do not have a significantly longer wheelbase but are a bit wider, they are heavier, more complex and therefore at 20 years old prone to serious problems.

Now find me an original rust free GTUs and I'd be interested, but it wouldn't get a V8

There are tons of rust free RX7s of all vintages out here in California for very little money. The suspension may be slightly botched in the FC but it's WAY better than what you'll get on just about any Mustang and I know people who make them work well. There are several seconds a lap handicap between the FB and FC cars I race. Both get equal amounts of "love". I just like the handling better in the latter myself. Chris, do you have drawings for your FC mounts?

aussiesmg wrote: pwned.... Sorry but can't agree with the FC preference, they are heavier, have at best flawed suspension, do not have a significantly longer wheelbase but are a bit wider, they are heavier, more complex and therefore at 20 years old prone to serious problems. Now find me an original rust free GTUs and I'd be interested, but it wouldn't get a V8

Posting a $2500 complete car to counter someone saying that shells are all $3k plus is not worthy of Pwnage. They really are frequently available running sub $2k. Shells are about $1k. In my small group of friends the range has been $100 for a straight shell to a $1200 T2 that needed finishing. Ive personally owned about 12 FB's and 3 or so FC's. The FC does more stuff well with less mods, but the FB is a little cooler in the funky is cool way.

aussiesmg wrote: pwned....

pwned? what are you talking about? first time on the internet?

FC Shells:

$1075 - http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=797645
$1000 - http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=796266
$1000 - http://atlanta.craigslist.org/cto/892931260.html
$1000 - http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/882189170.html (your aforementioned 1990 GTU shell)
$850 - http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=788681
$700 - http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=798480
$650 - http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=786417
$650 - http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=797680
$500 - http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=793879

Or how about FREE?

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=778342

None of those are near the Pacific NW. Up here it looks like this:

http://portland.craigslist.org/nco/cto/906075350.html S4 FC, $2500, runs on ONE rotor, toasted clutch, ricer mods, bad shifter, wiring hacks, body damage

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/906386828.html S5 FC, $3500, runs/drives has electrical and identity issues to go with bad paint

and the only decent one: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/910216471.html S4 FC shell, $1200, engine/trans inop and out of car, title issues

So yeah, if you wanted to build a V8 RX7 FC racecar and forget about titling it, then one can be had for $1200, but why do that when for the same money you can have:

http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/908323081.html S2 FB RX7, $1300, near mint loaded LE!

See my point?

FC Shells:

$1075 - Virginia $1000 - Alabama $1000 - Georgia $1000 - North Carolina $850 - Los Angeles $700 - Pasadena $650 - Rhode Island $650 - Florida $500 - Michigan Free - SoCal

Nowhere close :(

Wow. I feel sorry for you guys in the PNW. With prices so high up there, you could ship cars in just to resell them!

Speaking of FC shells, I just found this ad locally. Two FC shells for $500 total.

http://gainesville.craigslist.org/cto/908093722.html

+1 on tons of cheap RX7s in cali, they are difficult to get to pas emissions, and isnt a new cat for the 2nd gen ones like $2k? Eiher way, the junkyards are full ot pretty nice ones.

dyintorace wrote: Wow. I feel sorry for you guys in the PNW. With prices so high up there, you could ship cars in just to resell them! Speaking of FC shells, I just found this ad locally. Two FC shells for $500 total. http://gainesville.craigslist.org/cto/908093722.html

I guess that's the price you pay for having so many neat old cars left on the road. It seems like there are old Datsuns and Mazdas everywhere up there.

I paid $1000 for my last Turbo II, and drove it home.

MrJoshua wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: pwned.... Sorry but can't agree with the FC preference, they are heavier, have at best flawed suspension, do not have a significantly longer wheelbase but are a bit wider, they are heavier, more complex and therefore at 20 years old prone to serious problems. Now find me an original rust free GTUs and I'd be interested, but it wouldn't get a V8

Posting a $2500 complete car to counter someone saying that shells are all $3k plus is not worthy of Pwnage. They really are frequently available running sub $2k. Shells are about $1k. In my small group of friends the range has been $100 for a straight shell to a $1200 T2 that needed finishing. Ive personally owned about 12 FB's and 3 or so FC's. The FC does more stuff well with less mods, but the FB is a little cooler in the funky is cool way.

You stated it was a running /driving car when as P71 posted it clearly is not, hence you were pwned.

P71 Says shells are 3k, that was 2.5k. Even if its a shell its not pwnage.

30 sec search says shells are not 3k in Oregon.

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/910216471.html

http://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/864577739.html

http://medford.craigslist.org/cto/903481526.html

http://medford.craigslist.org/cto/886908193.html

http://salem.craigslist.org/cto/860164492.html

aussiesmg wrote:

MrJoshua wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: pwned.... Sorry but can't agree with the FC preference, they are heavier, have at best flawed suspension, do not have a significantly longer wheelbase but are a bit wider, they are heavier, more complex and therefore at 20 years old prone to serious problems. Now find me an original rust free GTUs and I'd be interested, but it wouldn't get a V8

Posting a $2500 complete car to counter someone saying that shells are all $3k plus is not worthy of Pwnage. They really are frequently available running sub $2k. Shells are about $1k. In my small group of friends the range has been $100 for a straight shell to a $1200 T2 that needed finishing. Ive personally owned about 12 FB's and 3 or so FC's. The FC does more stuff well with less mods, but the FB is a little cooler in the funky is cool way.

You stated it was a running /driving car when as P71 posted it clearly is not, hence you were pwned.

RX-7's can run with a toasted rotor and a burnt clutch.

Ya know, just sayin'...

I enjoy the look of the FB, but the FC is a better car (and I've voted with my wallet a few times). I don't know where all the comments about it's "IRS rear which is compromised" are coming from, but the FC rear suspension isn't as bad as the FB steering setup, and the cost of a rack&pinion swap vs. decent springs and shocks for the FC is more than a dealkiller. Find an turbo shell and you've got great brakes and a rear diff that can handle loads of power. If the shell prices are similar, I'd go for the FC. That said, clean FBs make me all tingly.

I bought a '90 FC for $500 last winter with spare S5 motor. Motor in car and spare both had lost seals on one rotor. A little work and now the 1st Gen Rx7 is the winter car. The FC is so much nicer to autocross or rallycross that the difference in weight is a non-factor. http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k40/LUV_not_hate/BRUCE/normal_TES2047.jpg

I said nice shells were $3K. Obviously there's $1000-$2000 primered, 4-lug, base-model, trashed-body, broken-interior, dorifto'd out ones. Or ones with title issues.

I've had an FC, I loved it. I still want another one (or two or three). But the realities of the market up here are that older stuff is actually easier to find (no emissions) and really, really nice SA/FB's can be had for chump change. FC's up here are all trashed, or expensive, and they all have a mandatory $1000 "drift tax" on them because that craze is still hot up here (you ought to see what 240's go for...). If I was really determined to do a V8 swap FC I would buy a clean shell in Cali and drag it back up, but a V8 FB can be done so much easier and cheaper, and then be lighter to boot. Not to mention an FB will still hang with 95% of the cars on the tracks today suspension-design wise.

Just saying there's a better way to get more bang for your buck.

FB's are MUCH more fun to drive.

grrrrr

My honest opinion on the entire situation is this:

An FC can be had in halfway decent condition for $0 to $1500 no matter your location as long as you spend some time looking. They are easily capable of handling 400 whp with a turbo chassis diff which gets you a solid 12 second car with no fuss. The entire suspension is basically sound and actually pretty good with rear steer defeat bushings. They are roomier and more solid than an FB. They have factory option brakes that are better than you will ever need. Rack and pinion steering vs. recirculating ball. Better aero, more stable at speed due to longer wheelbase and wider track. So basically a V8 FC with proper factory parts and better shocks and springs gets you a supercar killer.

The FB chassis is older and more prone to rust. The front suspension isnt much less advanced but is much more flimsy. Brakes are always small. Rear suspension binds with minimal travel. Diff cant handle the rotary power much less V8. Steering is vague and usually well worn. Worse aero, more twitchy, etc... A V8 FB would be a riot, but probably not as fast or comfy as a V8 FC.

They are both awesome sounding projects. I will build at least one of each some day! The choice really depends on what the end goal is.

I'm hearing some good arguments about the differences between the two gens.

FC sounds like a more capable DD due to it's roomy interior, braking capability and suspension. However parts prices are a fair margin cheaper for the FB from my O'reilly Auto Parts experience.

From a fabrication standpoint, the FC builds I have seen have trouble with the front dress on the 5.0 clearing the stock hood. They req. a SN95 conversion or equivalent modification.

Clearing the stock hood is paramount to me. Cowl induction is unacceptable.

I am not afraid of doing some fab or spending money but if the difference is negligible anywhere but Auto X then I'll take the cheap and easy route.

Does anyone have anything else to add before I pass judgment? Because I can't make a decision just yet...

I am not the person to talk to for an unbiased opinion since I currently own 3 FBs and have owned a couple of others. (One is technically an SA because it is a 1979, look for it in an upcoming Classic) Obviously I prefer the FBs chassis to the FC chassis.

FB

I prefer them because they are lighter and in my opinion they look better. They have been in my experience extremely easy to work on and for the majority of my ownership experience very reliable. Currently only one of my three run, however one is down for a megasquirt install (look for the car in the Dec issue), one is serving as a parts car when I stole its distributor, and the only running one is not yet registered.

A set of shocks and springs really wakes the car up. The steering is something you have to get used to, once you do it is not very noticeable on the street. It becomes a handful on tight autox courses and slaloms. The stock brakes work well for the most part and the car should lock up the tires on demand. If you need more check with Billy at RE-Speed http://www.mrcmfg.com/catalog/ to get the brackets to put 4 piston FC brakes on the car. He is a machinist by trade, he produces his stuff in house, the products are top notch and his customer service is amazing all at great prices. I have been running his coil-over setup for two years since it was first released with no problems and will be doing the rack and pinion upgrade soon.

The rear ends should hold up to limited abuse. With the increased torque of a 5.0 you probably don't want to put on some drag slicks and go to the track but many people run the stock rear with no problems. They are easy and cheap to replace if you happen to blow one up.

The interiors hold up very well overall and especially in the 84-85 models. You will rarely find dash cracks in the 84-85. The only places these cars really rust badly is behind the storage bins. Also check near the rear hatch if the drains become clogged.

As Tom mentioned we are considering doing a 5.0 swap on the my current parts car. It has 283,000 on the original motor and if I am going to spend money on it I want it to be different. The 2009 budget will help keep that in line. As mentioned before with the Grannys kit you can just drop the motor in and be done with it. We would be using this thing for the Challenge/Track Days/AutoX/RallyCross/Drift and just beat up the poor thing.

FC

My experience with FCs has been much more limited so this should be short. I have drove a couple and have walked away unimpressed, it should be noted that these were not prime example cars and one was a poorly modified T2 that pulled hard but did not do much else. My main gripes was that in the NA form you could really feel the extra weight and that the whole car just seemed bigger and less connected. The power should not be a problem if you a dropping a V8 in.

People have summed up the rest of issues with the FCs. Look for rust on these as well. The interior vents and bezels like to crack on the interior and a good number of people report electrical gremlins. They have more of the reputation as being a ricer car or drift mobile but are generally good cars.

My advice would be to test drive one of each and see which you like better, then imagine it with 100 more hp and and make your decision.

• Greg

I've had an SA, a couple FBs, and my FC in both rotary and V8 form. the V8 FC just makes for a very well rounded package, with excellent overall abilities. I prefer the brakes and suspension and interior. I like the looks of both, but the FC is a more modern car. And yes, while heavier (which makes a difference with torqueless stockish rotaries) my V8 FC still only weighed 2720lbs all up, which makes it light by modern car standards and lighter than the Mustang the engine came out of.

Vid in action

Here's the link to the plans for the mounts I made:

http://www.freewebs.com/adesso/mounts.htm

http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/cto/911811292.html

This one is from where I grew up. If I were to build another V8 RX7, this is the direction I'd go. All the turbo suspension and brakes. Sure, it's heavier yet, but still light compared to modern cars, even with the V8.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/909074940.html

This one is better than just a shell, and it has 5 lug wheels, so it probably has the better brakes.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/911977131.html

This one could probably be had well under $2k, and as a GXL also has the better brakes.

So, no dorifto tax and not beaters.

2+2 Automatic?!?!?!!!

That last one is sweet though. Best for the cheapest FC I've seen up here all year. If I wasn't having hot flashes about a Datsun Roadster right now...

The S4 GXL is definitely the way to go. They go for cheaper then other FC's yet still have the great brakes and LSD rear diff.