So, how good is great? And how great is amazing?

I've always driven slow, old Japanese cars. Some of these being datsun z's, a 510, several s13 240sx, an mr2, and my ae86's, currently my Celica. So as you can see, nothing spectacular. On the speed side of things I've had a 400 sb camaro, a WELL built L28 Z, and a skyline swapped s13. All fast, but merely 13 seconds fast. I drove a GTR last year, and while it was certainly faster than all of those vehicles, it didn't feel like a rocket ship. it was a track day rental and the handling was good, but kinda felt... Normal. It didn't feel "$120,000 good"

The next track day I do I promised I would drive the next bucket lister. A Ferrari. I know I will NEVER own something in the super car category, so tell me, those that are above us blue collar mortals, how good is great? And how great is amazing? I know.... I know.... "The chart says" "the car and driver review said..." Or "my rich uncle said" but we're not talking about skid pad data from a machine. I wanna know "how does it feel"?

Ive been 'doing so much with so little for so long' that newer high performance cars are even more irrelevant to me than new cars in general. Oddly enough, i think that's why my appreciation for stuff like Porsches and Ferraris has grown while the GT-R has been ignored from the start. I'm learning to value design, form, and a LACK of compromise for practicality as the things that I myself cannot just totally change about a car for $3000.

I suspect any modern Ferrari is going to feel way more special than the GT-R. As for how good is great, i think anything designed as a 500+hp mid-engined sporting machine from the get go is going feel great compared to a front-engined yacht heavier than my old Dodge Magnum Station Wagon that gets a lot of its handling prowess from software.

I'll agree with that. "Never meet your heroes."-it's true.

I just crave the analog experience. No nannies for me. None of my cars have abs or traction control. If I get into trouble, it is completely my fault.

My ghetto rigged turbo 240 is a complete handful, but that makes it all the more alluring to me. The car has personality and is dramatic about everything. Would get tiresome as a daily but for a fun car, it's hard to beat.

It speaks to you and you speak to it. Theres almost a mutual respect thing going on. It's like riding a bareback horse.

These days, it's like they've tamed the beast so much that you've got the bit in its mouth, you've got the whip in your hands, and you've got bean counters on all sides with lightning spears making SURE that thing doesn't dare buck or scare you in the least. Making sure that, no matter how much of a complete and ignorant moron you are, the horse never bites back or disobeys.

I respect the engineering involved in the latest performance cars, but I despise all of the invasive assists. Don't get me wrong, there are a few exceptions out there, but the latest GTR is kind of the poster child of a performance car completely saturated in driver assists.

I'll agree with that also, but has anyone here had the pleasure of piloting a super car?

In reply to Trackmouse:

I spent Saturday doing my first day instructing for Xtreme Xperience at NOLA Motorsports Park, so these same thoughts have been running through my head as well. Most of my time was split between the Lambo and Ferrari, but I picked up enough on the GTR to say it's not really in the same category as the others - don't get me wrong, it's an awesome car. However, it's place in the world is more of a GT coupe than track car.

The Ferrari on the other hand is really in its element out on track. As with any car that has that high of performance envelope, it will gladly kill you if you're stupid enough to let it, but the car its self doesn't really have any bad traits. I do feel some of the charm and class of older Ferraris has been lost to modern technology, but there's no arguing the benefit it's brought to performance and reliability. However, it's not a car I'd want to use on the open roads with any frequency.

A GTR is like Berkeleying a porn star who won't take her top off up her skirt with 4 rubbers on. Yeah you're Berkeleying a pro, but you're getting none of the experience.

A Ferrari is like Berkeleying a repressed librarian named Amy who does Webcam modeling on the downlow and is imploring you to pull her hair, encouraging ass to mouth and has you thinking, for several reasons, that protection probably would've been the prudent play. It's immensely enjoyable, incredibly involved and an all consuming experience that can leave you exhausted.

I spent a bunch of time talking to the guys driving the Porsche 918 on One Lap, they drove the Carerra GT last year. They both agreed that the 918 was a better car in every way even though the GT was more 'raw'.
All of the super car owners I know say that the cars improve with every generation. Driving experience is very subjective.

As a guy that likes mechanical things a lot more than electronic things, I think I'd prefer the experience of a '60s to early nineties super car to anything being made today.

I could be wrong though, I don't think I've ever driven anything that even remotely counts as a super car.

captdownshift wrote: A GTR is like Berkeleying a porn star who won't take her top off up her skirt with 4 rubbers on. Yeah you're Berkeleying a pro, but you're getting none of the experience. A Ferrari is like Berkeleying a repressed librarian named Amy who does Webcam modeling on the downlow and is imploring you to pull her hair, encouraging ass to mouth and has you thinking, for several reasons, that protection probably would've been the prudent play. It's immensely enjoyable, incredibly involved and an all consuming experience that can leave you exhausted.

You just made my day. Thanks for being back in full flavor man.

I can't tell if I want to rent a Ferrari or goto the library now.

In reply to HappyAndy:

My only experience was a bone-stock Pantera. It felt large(yet cramped inside), wallowy, and underpowered - which is exactly what it was. It was still completely berkeleying awesome to drive it, but because of the visceral experience, not the performance - there's the fully-manual steering(cocked slightly off-center) with a smallish steering wheel, your legs angled all the way toward the centerline of the car & feet wedged deep into the footwell where you can't see anything, the dogleg gated shifter, and the sound of a lightly warmed-over Cleveland...only its behind you.

The Pantera is probably the better investment(next to a ~10 year old supercar at the bottom of its depreciation), likely cheaper to own and maintain, and slightly better at dealing with imperfect streets/highways. It would be difficult to make it come close to the performance of a modern supercar for less than the cost of one though.

In reply to petegossett: Yeah, I think I would like a Pantera. When I think of me with a super car I think of a GT40, Miura, or Lancia 037 homologation. The Pantera would fit nicely in that group.

I have driven many a "supercar" as a result of being an instructor for a number of orgs over the last 20 years. Astons, F430, 360 Modena, every flavor of M car in existence... a 918, GT2 and 3s... With the notable exception of an Exige and a friend's beautifully restored Pantera I really don't want any of them and don't care enough about them to gush over the opportunity to drive them. They are all fast and expensive but that isn't what makes a car awesome to me.

My tastes fall toward raw, fun, and maybe a little bit brutal. I'd rather have a Caterham than an Aston for a track day. I'd rather drive a Spec Racer Ford than a new 911 of any trim level. I'd rather wheel an unmuffled Pantera vintage race car on bias ply tires than a new F430. A shifter cart is as much fun as the greatest car ever made.

the hardest, most enjoyable car I ever owned.. a 1972 911E (Wish I still had that car). Totally stock, it was a car that took 100% if not more of your concentration and abilities to get most (not all) of it's potential out of it.

So far I have whipped the ponies on the Gallardo LP560-4, Ferrari 458, and McLaren 570S. The Gallardo certainly has personality. The steering and throttle are immensely precise and satisfying, but the problem is that the rest of the car wnats to argue about how exactly it wants to follow along, with a constant, subtle threat of just waiting for the right moment to whip it's head around bite you: the thrill was a bit akin to grabbing a rattlesnake by the tail. At 7/10s it's great fun, but past 8/10s it starts to become worrisome. Great for a canyon blast at a quick but not screaming pace.

The Ferrari 458 is the exact opposite. It talks to you, encouraging you to push ever harder. It responds perfectly to subtle inputs and gives completely linear outputs. It commuicates so well it's a bit like it's own instructor. I would feel comfortable balancing the 458 right on the edge. Oh, and the seating position feels very natural.

The McLaren 570S is the car I would choose to DD, If I had the means to choose. It can get a bit light in the tail under very hard braking and a bit light in the front at WOT in the lower and middle gears, not quite as composed as the 458. Being a turbo engine, the throttle balance mid-corner and application on corner exit cannot be as precise the Ferrari 458, so it requires you to be more "right" in setting the car on turn-in. But for me at least, the 570S was the most natural extension of my driving senses. Of the three cars, it was the one that felt like I was wearing the car like a suit. It simply moved when I moved. Think the brakes, and the car slows in exactly the way I want it to. Think the turn, and the car follows my mind. Pushed to 9/10s, given it's slight twitchyness under braking and WOT exit I think it would ultimately become more tiresome in an extended track session than the 458. BUT, the 570S just felt so right. For me it was the "greatest" of two "great" supercars.

In reply to captdownshift:

Thanks. That was graphic, but informative.

WildScotsRacing wrote: So far I have whipped the ponies on the Gallardo LP560-4, Ferrari 458, and McLaren 570S. The Gallardo certainly has personality. The steering and throttle are immensely precise and satisfying, but the problem is that the rest of the car wnats to argue about how exactly it wants to follow along, with a constant, subtle threat of just waiting for the right moment to whip it's head around bite you: the thrill was a bit akin to grabbing a rattlesnake by the tail. At 7/10s it's great fun, but past 8/10s it starts to become worrisome. Great for a canyon blast at a quick but not screaming pace. The Ferrari 458 is the exact opposite. It talks to you, encouraging you to push ever harder. It responds perfectly to subtle inputs and gives completely linear outputs. It commuicates so well it's a bit like it's own instructor. I would feel comfortable balancing the 458 right on the edge. Oh, and the seating position feels very natural. The McLaren 570S is the car I would choose to DD, If I had the means to choose. It can get a bit light in the tail under very hard braking and a bit light in the front at WOT in the lower and middle gears, not quite as composed as the 458. Being a turbo engine, the throttle balance mid-corner and application on corner exit cannot be as precise the Ferrari 458, so it requires you to be more "right" in setting the car on turn-in. But for me at least, the 570S was the most natural extension of my driving senses. Of the three cars, it was the one that felt like I was wearing the car like a suit. It simply moved when I moved. Think the brakes, and the car slows in exactly the way I want it to. Think the turn, and the car follows my mind. Pushed to 9/10s, given it's slight twitchyness under braking and WOT exit I think it would ultimately become more tiresome in an extended track session than the 458. BUT, the 570S just felt so right. For me it was the "greatest" of two "great" supercars.

Going to disagree on the Gallardo man I hate that car seriously its a Audi in a fancy suit. Nothing wrong with that except the R8 does it better.

458 absolutely right same with the 570S. I actually the 570s better then the 650S. Things are in the 10.3 quarter on good tires all day long and drive like a dream.

For me its the Ferrari 360/430 are the best of all of the "exotics" holy tar are then fun at any speed. Once you start getting into the more modern Ferrari's they are so track focused they are less fun on the street.

How fun a supercar would be on the track would be inversely proportional to how many berks I would give if I balled it up.

In reply to wearymicrobe:

Yeah, when I said the Gallardo has "personality", it wasn't a compliment. But the 570S, man that is a car I could have a ball with at track days OR taking a drive up a winding mountain pass with picnic basket in the boot; which is now one of my newest Bucket List items - next time we do Scotland I want to rent a 570S for a couple of days, sampling the better driving roads with a picnic basket, because wine/cheese/McLaren. Plus, you can set the cruise on the interstate and it will deliver mid-20s mpg!

WildScotsRacing wrote: In reply to wearymicrobe: Yeah, when I said the Gallardo has "personality", it wasn't a compliment. src="/media/img/icons/smilies/cool-18.png" alt="" />. Plus, you can set the cruise on the interstate and it will deliver mid-20s mpg!

I know just making that clear for everyone.

Honestly they are all terrible street cars except for the 570S and if you have the money (180K now for one) the 911 Turbo is actually a better "car" then the others. Personally if you are going to go nuts and buy an exotic and you should at some point in your life then you need to go full nuts. Hence the ACR in the garage and not something with a prancing horse.

I drove a Gallardo Superleggera on track. It wasnt like super fast, but it was quick. It did sound freakin awesome.

It had hard mounted race seats, that were hard as E36 M3 to get into but then you didnt move at all. They made a huge difference in how it felt on the track, and it did handle really well.

Wow, some of you have driven some expensive cars. Other than a few high end Porsches, one Ferrari and a Viper GTS Coupe, I'm no where near those kind of cars. But of the ones I have driven on track, I think I still prefer something like a nice 240z. The Viper was plenty fast, but I wouldn't exactly call it fun. It was a lot of work and a lot of heat, with only mediocre steering feel. The Porsches and Ferrari were all fun, but mostly street miles. I too prefer a more mechanical feel, and a lot of modern cars miss on that.

I drove a F430 Spyder at a Dreamdrive "autocross" event for my birthday.. and a Lamborghini Huracane as well. Have to say while the Lambo sure made me smile with it's torque, the Ferrari just came ALIVE in my hands. Even with traction control on, just the open top SOUND (ripping silk they say??), my ability to place it effortlessly where I wanted it, my ability to SEE out of it, made it my favorite vehicle that I didn't know I really want sometime in life.

I get to do PCA autocrosses with a friends F-Type as well. While I love that car's six cylinder sound, and the thrust of that car shifting down, I'd much rather be autocrossing my wife's BMW 128i.

I can see why there's a person in my neighborhood who DD's his F430, rain or shine. I want to meet him and shake his hand.

You'll feel more alive on a 10 year old CBR600 than in any car on the planet.

Appleseed wrote: You'll feel more alive on a 10 year old CBR600 than in any car on the planet.

Quoted for irony. The irony is that while it makes you feel alive, it's also trying to kill you.