So, what do you guys know about VW TDI's?

I swore to myself a long time ago that I would never, ever own another VW product, but the allure of the newer 2009+ TDI models (especially the Golf and Sport Wagon) is really grabbing my attention. I've never had a diesel vehicle before.

I drive a lot. I bought my 2012 Mazda 3 in October 2011, and to this day, it has about 47k on it. I've been averaging about 26mpg out of it with mostly highway driving. Maintenance on the 3 is super simple: oil changes every 7500mi, and filters/tuneup/etc. as needed. I still like it and it has been a great car, but lately, it has been doing some annoying things, like grinding into 2nd gear randomly as well as various rattles, clunks, etc that are driving me crazy.

To me, the TDI's look good on paper. They seem to have similar performance numbers to the 3, except the fuel economy is almost double what I get now. They seem to be a little nicer on the inside, and I spend a lot of time in the car. I'd most likely get the stick, but the DSG is intriguing and may be a better choice since I sit in traffic a lot.

The maintenance kinda scares me. They seem to do slightly better on oil changes, but parts seem tough to get unless you go to the dealer. The particulate filter thing... I don't get it. Same with the Urea fluid, does it have it? Is it expensive? Also, T-belt changes seem VERY expensive on these. Are these cars DIY-friendly like my 3 is?

The reliability scares me too. My old 2002 Jetta was the worst car I've had yet for a daily driver. It was constantly broken, and I got it new. I'd rather not go through that again.

The whole goal is to save money. If I get a TDI, I would be saving a great deal on fuel and my monthly payment would go down a little or stay the same if I go used or CPO.

Is this a good idea, or should I stick it out with the 3? Right now I have 0% financing on it, which rules. I would lose that too. I can take the car in to get looked at for the 2nd gear issue (which is pretty common with these) and hopefully they fix it under warranty.

No personal experience with new TDI's (I have a 2003), but browsing idparts.com, it doesn't look like parts would be a problem.

In general, VW's are fairly DIY friendly. Anything you need to do to it can be found on the Vortex (body & suspension related) or tdiclub (engine related).

Ross-Tech for computer interface & diagnostics.

What about a 2014 Diesel Mazda 6?

Enyar wrote: What about a 2014 Diesel Mazda 6?

I'd love one, but...

-They haven't been announced yet, no concrete release date

-They will be at least in the upper $20k range to start, which will not save me any money

-Not going to roll the dice on a 1st model year car with a 1st model year drivetrain until they have been around awhile. It's quite the radical design for a diesel.

I've considered just waiting and getting a used Mazda 6 GT once they dip to around $20k. That will still get upper 30's for mileage on regular gas.

How exactly do you get 26 mpg out of a mazda2 with mostly highway driving? Do you average 85+mph?

He has a Mazda3, not a 2. That's the main cause, right there.

SilverFleet wrote: I swore to myself a long time ago that I would never, ever own another VW product, but the allure of the newer 2009+ TDI models (especially the Golf and Sport Wagon) is really grabbing my attention. I've never had a diesel vehicle before. I drive a lot. I bought my 2012 Mazda 3 in October 2011, and to this day, it has about 47k on it. I've been averaging about 26mpg out of it with mostly highway driving. Maintenance on the 3 is super simple: oil changes every 7500mi, and filters/tuneup/etc. as needed. I still like it and it has been a great car, but lately, it has been doing some annoying things, like grinding into 2nd gear randomly as well as various rattles, clunks, etc that are driving me crazy. To me, the TDI's look good on paper. They seem to have similar performance numbers to the 3, except the fuel economy is almost double what I get now. They seem to be a little nicer on the inside, and I spend a lot of time in the car. I'd most likely get the stick, but the DSG is intriguing and may be a better choice since I sit in traffic a lot. The maintenance kinda scares me. They seem to do slightly better on oil changes, but parts seem tough to get unless you go to the dealer. The particulate filter thing... I don't get it. Same with the Urea fluid, does it have it? Is it expensive? Also, T-belt changes seem VERY expensive on these. Are these cars DIY-friendly like my 3 is? The reliability scares me too. My old 2002 Jetta was the worst car I've had yet for a daily driver. It was constantly broken, and I got it new. I'd rather not go through that again. The whole goal is to save money. If I get a TDI, I would be saving a great deal on fuel and my monthly payment would go down a little or stay the same if I go used or CPO. Is this a good idea, or should I stick it out with the 3? Right now I have 0% financing on it, which rules. I would lose that too. I can take the car in to get looked at for the 2nd gear issue (which is pretty common with these) and hopefully they fix it under warranty.

Since it seems no one else wants to answer your question and just flounder I will try to.

Do some simple math. Look at total payments remaining on the 3 and sum them up. Then calculate the total payments of the TDi (if you say those letters as a word instead of as letters...you find Germans have a sense of humor )

Subtract them.

That is how much the TDi must save over the life of it's payments to equal the keeping the 3.

Run some more numbers figure average repair costs for the TDi and the 3, take the difference and put that in previous total. Do the same with insurance

Now calculate your fuel cost per year based on fuel cost and mpg. Most people are getting 50+ in the TDi for MPG instead of the 40ish listed by the EPA.

(Fuel Economy.gov has the fuel calculator, Edmunds gives good cost estimates for stealership work. Hennessy Honda of Woodstock sucks)

That is the financials of it, but do you want to be a short shifting oil burning maniac or a high strung torq steering zinger. That is the big question

Vigo wrote: How exactly do you get 26 mpg out of a mazda2 with mostly highway driving? Do you average 85+mph?

I have a Mazda 3 with a 2.5L/6MT. I've gotten a best mileage of 31mpg, and recently, a worst mileage of 22mpg. Since last October, I've been using an Android App called Fuel Log to log my mileage and spending, and my average is 26.8.

It's a big improvement over my old 2009 WRX, but it could be better.

Flight, your numbers ignore re-sale. TDI resale is fantastic, even with stupid high miles on the car. I drove mine nearly 70k miles, and sold it 3 years later for nearly what I paid for it. I would not have been able to say the same with a Mazda 3.

Flight Service wrote: Since it seems no one else wants to answer your question and just flounder I will try to. Do some simple math. Look at total payments remaining on the 3 and sum them up. Then calculate the total payments of the TDi (if you say those letters as a word instead of as letters...you find Germans have a sense of humor ) Subtract them. That is how much the TDi must save over the life of it's payments to equal the keeping the 3. Run some more numbers figure average repair costs for the TDi and the 3, take the difference and put that in previous total. Do the same with insurance Now calculate your fuel cost per year based on fuel cost and mpg. Most people are getting 50+ in the TDi for MPG instead of the 40ish listed by the EPA. (Fuel Economy.gov has the fuel calculator, Edmunds gives good cost estimates for stealership work. Hennessy Honda of Woodstock sucks) That is the financials of it, but do you want to be a short shifting oil burning maniac or a high strung torq steering zinger. That is the big question

I had a 2010 TDi Cup(essentially a Jetta Gli with a diesel). Loved it and never had any issues. I had a 6 MT and saw a 52mpg avg ( hand calc) on a 14 hour trip with 3 adults. No urea, no dpf. Good car

I am interested in the same question, and all I have learned is that Hennessy Honda of Woodstock sucks.

With the new costs of Diesel it's hard to make a diesel car make a whole lot of sense on paper. The possible extra gas mileage is offset by the dramatically higher fuel costs.

I like them in concept, but am with you in that some of the weirdness of maintenance and the fuel costs have kept me from heading down that path.

unk577 wrote: I had a 2010 TDi Cup(essentially a Jetta Gli with a diesel). Loved it and never had any issues. I had a 6 MT and saw a 52mpg avg ( hand calc) on a 14 hour trip with 3 adults. No urea, no dpf. Good car

These are really cool, but they are super rare.

The cost of diesel is cheaper around here than the cost of premium unleaded. Regular gas at some places is almost as much as I've seen diesel for.

Also, as much as I don't want to even ask, how are the DSG-equipped cars? SWMBO thinks that my transmission problems start at the nut behind the wheel, because this is the 2nd car in a row that has had tranny issues. My WRX had clutch throwout bearing issues and pedal problems, and now I have a 2nd gear grind in the 3. My 1st WRX had no such issues. My old Jetta did, so she may have a point.

Plus, I kinda like the idea of flappy paddles in a car that I sit in traffic in all the time. At least it will be somewhat interesting. I have to shift so much now that my SHOES are wearing out!

SilverFleet wrote: The cost of diesel is cheaper around here than the cost of premium unleaded. Regular gas at some places is almost as much as I've seen diesel for.

HOW? I've been told the diesel prices will never drop back to the pricing position they had before the hurricane.

I've been travelling cross several states near Texas and diesel is always about 20 cents a gallon more than premium which I thought was to be the new norm.

Is something changing?

carguy123 wrote:

SilverFleet wrote: The cost of diesel is cheaper around here than the cost of premium unleaded. Regular gas at some places is almost as much as I've seen diesel for.

HOW? I've been told the diesel prices will never drop back to the pricing position they had before the hurricane. I've been travelling cross several states near Texas and diesel is always about 20 cents a gallon more than premium which I thought was to be the new norm. Is something changing?

It could just be a Northeast thing. I thought the same thing too.

Be warned. Right now you're looking at Summer prices. They always bump gas up during the "summer travel season" and diesel always goes up in Winter due to additional additives and demand for heating oil (also diesel). In the winter I pay considerably more for diesel than any unleaded grade.

To be brutally honest, I made out like a bandit when I bought my car in early 2003. Gas was still cheap (pre-Katrina, so like under $2/gal) and buying a diesel was a novelty. I paid well under sticker for my car. When Katrina hit 1.5 years later and gas shot up to $5/gal, I could have sold the car for more than I paid for it. Compared to the V8 conversion van I was driving at the time, the fuel costs paid for the car by a fair bit.

Additionally, that cheap gas meant it was the height of the SUV-craze and nobody cared much about mileage. If a car got 30 mpg, that was considered really good.

Since that time, the market has changed. Gas cars have closed the mpg gap quite a bit and at a lower buy-in price. I would definitely have to do some soul-searching and number crunching to go with a TDi again, even at the 100 miles a day I drive. There are other things as well. While finding oil has become much easier (when I bought my car, the only reliable source was the local VW/Audi dealer), just finding diesel can be a PITA at times, especially on trips.

How about a Honda CR-Z instead? Hybrid, 6 speed manual trans, good chassis, RELIABLE, ~$21k

I'm not terribly sure how reliable the newer CR TDI's will prove to be, but our 98 New Beetle TDI has over 350,000 miles on it and it's running strong. the Turbo eventually went at 340,000 or so, and I just had to put a bigger one on.

As for fuel - I find Diesel here in California is more than regular about 60% of the time, the same about 10%, and below about 30%. And as far a finding fuel - the added range in a diesel makes that a non-issue. We just drove the New Beetle to the Arctic Ocean and back, and one of the greatest things about the trip was the proven 600 mile+ range that it has. While others were emptying gas cans along the Dalton highway, we just drove on by and even skipped out on fuel at Deadhorse (240 miles from another fuel station). It only gets 40-45 mpg, but that beats the 25-29 mpg her gas Beetle got.

I sure hope the newer TDI's turn out to be just as good, but I can't really add anything constructive here about that.

I hope you find what's right for you!

SilverFleet wrote: I swore to myself a long time ago that I would never, ever own another VW product, but the allure of the newer 2009+ TDI models (especially the Golf and Sport Wagon) is really grabbing my attention. I've never had a diesel vehicle before. I drive a lot. I bought my 2012 Mazda 3 in October 2011, and to this day, it has about 47k on it. I've been averaging about 26mpg out of it with mostly highway driving. Maintenance on the 3 is super simple: oil changes every 7500mi, and filters/tuneup/etc. as needed. I still like it and it has been a great car, but lately, it has been doing some annoying things, like grinding into 2nd gear randomly as well as various rattles, clunks, etc that are driving me crazy. To me, the TDI's look good on paper. They seem to have similar performance numbers to the 3, except the fuel economy is almost double what I get now. They seem to be a little nicer on the inside, and I spend a lot of time in the car. I'd most likely get the stick, but the DSG is intriguing and may be a better choice since I sit in traffic a lot. The maintenance kinda scares me. They seem to do slightly better on oil changes, but parts seem tough to get unless you go to the dealer. The particulate filter thing... I don't get it. Same with the Urea fluid, does it have it? Is it expensive? Also, T-belt changes seem VERY expensive on these. Are these cars DIY-friendly like my 3 is? The reliability scares me too. My old 2002 Jetta was the worst car I've had yet for a daily driver. It was constantly broken, and I got it new. I'd rather not go through that again. The whole goal is to save money. If I get a TDI, I would be saving a great deal on fuel and my monthly payment would go down a little or stay the same if I go used or CPO. Is this a good idea, or should I stick it out with the 3? Right now I have 0% financing on it, which rules. I would lose that too. I can take the car in to get looked at for the 2nd gear issue (which is pretty common with these) and hopefully they fix it under warranty.

I own a 2012 Golf TDI, I honestly have never liked another car more (maybe something is wrong with me?). It just works.

I'm still running under VW carefree maintenance but once that is over I have full intentions of fixing it myself aside from the timing belt job, that one just seems scary and i'll pay for it. I only buy dealer parts as well, so that isn't an issue for me personally.

The DPF filters the exhaust down to zero emissions, its a giant cat. No fluid required on the golf or jettas, the car runs dpf cycles where it super heats itself to clean it out.

I can't exactly vouch for reliability yet as i'm only 1.5 years/23K miles in so far with no issues. Mine is the 6 speed and around town I get about 40mpg and 48-50 on road trips. I also pull a small trailer to haul my motorcycle and get 35 doing that. 50 bucks of diesel will take you 550-600 miles.

Its a very useful, fun to drive, economical car. It's not perfect, but it suits me well for what I look for in a daily driver. While I can't make your buying decision for you, providing the payment stays the same, you'll definitely save money. Maintenance and reliability concerns me down the road, but so far so good and people seem to have good luck with their TDI's. Oh, and use fuel treatment every tank, your fuel system will thank you later.

amg_rx7 wrote: How about a Honda CR-Z instead? Hybrid, 6 speed manual trans, good chassis, RELIABLE, ~$21k

No thanks. Not a fan of hybrids, except maybe the Volt, but that's out of the question due to price and the cost of installing a charging station at my house. The CRZ's looks don't do it for me either, and I would be smart to get something with 4 doors.

There has been some good information on here, and it's quite the leap of faith, believe me. No one's more skeptical of VW stuff than I am. I lived with a terribly unreliable POS Jetta for three long years of pure hell.

Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: Flight, your numbers ignore re-sale. TDI resale is fantastic, even with stupid high miles on the car. I drove mine nearly 70k miles, and sold it 3 years later for nearly what I paid for it. I would not have been able to say the same with a Mazda 3.

Flight Service wrote: Since it seems no one else wants to answer your question and just flounder I will try to. Do some simple math. Look at total payments remaining on the 3 and sum them up. Then calculate the total payments of the TDi (if you say those letters as a word instead of as letters...you find Germans have a sense of humor ) Subtract them. That is how much the TDi must save over the life of it's payments to equal the keeping the 3. Run some more numbers figure average repair costs for the TDi and the 3, take the difference and put that in previous total. Do the same with insurance Now calculate your fuel cost per year based on fuel cost and mpg. Most people are getting 50+ in the TDi for MPG instead of the 40ish listed by the EPA. (Fuel Economy.gov has the fuel calculator, Edmunds gives good cost estimates for stealership work. Hennessy Honda of Woodstock sucks) That is the financials of it, but do you want to be a short shifting oil burning maniac or a high strung torq steering zinger. That is the big question

They do, but are you a long term-er or a drive a dump? I just wanted to look out of pocket to have the cars.

SilverFleet wrote:

Vigo wrote: How exactly do you get 26 mpg out of a mazda2 with mostly highway driving? Do you average 85+mph?

I have a Mazda 3 with a 2.5L/6MT. I've gotten a best mileage of 31mpg, and recently, a worst mileage of 22mpg. Since last October, I've been using an Android App called Fuel Log to log my mileage and spending, and my average is 26.8. It's a big improvement over my old 2009 WRX, but it could be better.

my 2012 skyactiv 2.0L/6Auto averages 34. A best of 44.5, and a worst of 27, with 15k miles under it's belt.

carguy123 wrote: With the new costs of Diesel it's hard to make a diesel car make a whole lot of sense on paper. The possible extra gas mileage is offset by the dramatically higher fuel costs. I like them in concept, but am with you in that some of the weirdness of maintenance and the fuel costs have kept me from heading down that path.

U.S. Regular Gasoline $3.646

U.S. On-Highway Diesel Fuel $3.915

That means to offset the just the fuel cost compared to the the 3 the TDi needs to get 7% better fuel economy. Or, for the 3's best tank, 33 mpg

Your fuel cost fear is unfounded. now weirdness of maintenance....

In reply to Flight Service:

Longest I've had a daily driver is just over 3 years. When I bought my Mazda, I fully intended on keeping it until it's paid off and then some. I'm just throwing this idea of me getting one of these out there to see if it's worth it. I've had this car for just under 2 years so far. Pretty much, if the dealer doesn't address my transmission issue, I'll just ditch the car now.

Maybe I should tough it out a little longer until the VW GTD comes out or other high-efficiency offerings?

Maybe I should just fix my other cars to stave off the boredom?

SilverFleet wrote: There has been some good information on here, and it's quite the leap of faith, believe me. No one's more skeptical of VW stuff than I am. I lived with a terribly unreliable POS Jetta for three long years of pure hell.

Agreed. Part of me didn't expect my TDi to last a year before I traded it in. I basically said, "the 3rd trip home from the dealer for warranty work will end at the Acura deaelr for a RSX." This was after I sold my '98 A4 Avant for which I traded in my beloved '91 Integra.

Over 10 years later the car has never had a dealer turn a wrench on the car. I've done all work myself, including a couple of minor recalls (easier to buy and install a $5 switch than to deal with havign the dealer do it for free).

I don't see me getting rid of the car until I either, A - retire, or B - BEV's become more affordable and can be had in a similar wagon form.