Oh great GRM, please help me out, I'm not finding the info I want (or maybe I need reassurance). I have a B16 swapped 1998 Civic hatchback with Koni yellows, what appear to be stock springs from something (car looks lower than stock), and an OBX rear sway bar. I bought the car this way.
On my daily commute, the car is fine, mountain runs are great, however, during autocrosses, I'd like to keep the inside rear a bit closer to the ground - an inch or 2 of lift is to be expected, but I'm getting massive air, and I think I'm losing time as a result. Stiffer springs are needed, however, I don't really want height-adjustable coilovers, i.e. Ground Control ( which appears to be the answer). Any other recommendations?
Thank you!
Robbie
UltimaDork
5/1/19 10:28 a.m.
why do you think you are losing time? Once a tire is in the air - there is no change in grip depending on how high it is...
True, but the weight transfer is overloading the outside front tire and the inside front is barely hanging on. When I say I'm hanging air, I'm talking 6-8 inches, Konis on full stiff, to full soft, doesn't change anything, front is too soft for those transitions. I know the inside rear will lift and I'm not going to eliminate it, just calm it down a bit.
dps214
New Reader
5/1/19 10:54 a.m.
There's no more weight transfer once the car is in the air, but the wheel lifting further means the car is rolling further, which is going to hurt front grip, and even outside rear tire grip by losing camber. I'd probably try upping the front bar to reduce overall body roll. It'll be a little bit more prone to understeer on turn in but should be better mid corner and on corner exit.
I'll agree with adding more front roll stiffness. If that leads to understeer issues, look at widening the front track a little bit with spacers or different wheels, provided you can do it without putting yourself into bad steering behavior from the change in scrub radius.
aw614
Reader
5/1/19 11:00 a.m.
Do you have a front bar? Some of the base models didn't have any sway bars on them. There are several options that fit the EK models, like the EX 22mm and the EM1 26mm.
I don't have a front bar and I don't think this model came with one. The personal advice (road racers, hillclimbers, and autocrossers) I've received is no bar on the driven axle. The internet advice is mixed. I've been down this road before with an 87 VW Golf, but never got it right before selling. The Civic is similar, but different.
Robbie
UltimaDork
5/1/19 11:19 a.m.
Make sure you don't confuse body roll with weight transfer. The weight transfer happens always, no matter what (for a given weight, center of mass, turning force, etc). Sway bars do not reduce weight transfer. Stiffer springs do not reduce weight transfer. Shock absorbers do not reduce weight transfer.
You might be able to increase turning force by reducing body roll (as mentioned above generally keeping the tires dynamic alignment more optimal so they can use their contact patch optimally). If you increase the turning force you actually INCREASE the weight transfer.
The major problem with sway bars on the driven axle that you allude to is that they have a tendency to lift the inside wheel (by applying the bump force due to weight transfer to both sides of the car). And your acceleration with an open diff is limited by the traction available on the inside wheel.
So adding a front sway may reduce body roll and increase turning force at the cost of acceleration ability at end of the corner. Which is more important? Testing is a good way to find out.
I’d definitely address the “unknown spring rates” first and foremost. If you’re opposed to coilovers, I’m sure Eibach makes a “X% lower/stiffer than stock” set.
Is the rear bar adjustable?
The advice you got about avoiding too much bar on the drive end is correct. But depending on how much roll stiffness you need, what you can or want to run for springs, etc. sometimes you end up needing some bar.
I haven't messed with the rear bar, but it does have 3 holes, I think its currently mounted in the middle one.