State Farm wants to total my car - how can I prevent this?

Mndsm said:

I'm no expert but I would do two things. First, I would ask them for the examples they used to compare your car to their value, and take the time to point out the difference. Second, I would have all of the ones you just mentioned ready to go, and point out the differences between the two. 

I tried that... they just provided more examples that were similar, but not equal. I pointed that out, and they provided more examples that were similar, but not equal. Eventually, it dragged on long enough and they proved they could afford to let it continue to drag out, and that I could not. 
State Supported Extortion. 

maj75 (Forum Supporter) said:

Their driver is at fault.  Fix the car where you want and sue them for the cost of repairs.  They have to reimburse you what it costs you to repair.  Your insurance company can total the car because it says so in your insurance policy.  You don't have a State Farm policy.  Screw them.  Spend your money to repair your car.  State Farm can refuse to pay but they can't win in court.

Said with conviction. Totally incorrect, but hey, it was said on the internet, with conviction. If we all repeat it... well, it still won't be true. 

Dig out any receipts you have that may be recent, new tires, maintenance, etc.  Insurance Co was about to total my 90 NA Miata after someone used it as a Monster truck prop.  When I showed them recent tires, hardtop not on the car, I was just able to nudge the car back into the repair zone.  Work the comps.

The other issue driving costs are mos BMW parts are 30-45 days out for us (body shop here) if they're not on backorder. We've had customers in rental cars for literally months. $30/day for 90 days is a crap ton of money.

Well thats upsetting...I didn't know Cavallo was such a problem, good to know going forward. My parents have had work done there and every vehicle came back looking as if nothing had happened. I had my RX7 repaired across the street at Keenan when they were there and 7 years later the paint is bubbling up. Maybe SF totaling it out so easily is because of them? Cavallos mentioned that no matter where I take it, a shop will rack up the same price because they do a reduced labor rate....Ohhhhhh so thats how they make their money, the supplements. got it. 

I went up to Cavallos this morning to get an understanding of what the extent of the damage was. They had the vehicle taken apart and there was a SMALL SMALL issue right here. like I could probably get a come-along and pull this back out small. Against your advice I don't think I want to let the vehicle go, and I think the best course of action is to let SF "total it" and then buy it back (we still owe a good chunk having just bought it in September). We  then get a personal loan + left over money to find a car that was rear ended to rebuild the front, then part out what I don't use. I'll just find someone to do the paintwork for me after. 

edit: I appreciate everyone chiming in. I hate insurance companies. 

In reply to Chaulklet :

When SF "totals it" the car will get a Salvage title.  In most states this means the car is not legal to drive on the road until you take the car to your state to have the car "inspected."  After passing inspection the car will then be given a Rebuilt Salvage title which means the car is legal to be on the road again.  

Do you understand what it takes to go from "salvage title" to "rebuilt title" in your state?  

For me, as an Ohio resident this process is pretty easy.  Just takes some months waiting for your appointment to verify your parts receipts.  And, in those months you can't drive the car.  Others here have told me that in some states, like Illinois, you have to be a licensed entity with the state (authorized business) to take a car from Salvage to Rebuilt.  

The good news is that you don't need to find a wagon as the front end should be the same. 

I can't for the life of me see what's wrong in what you highlighted. I'll have to wait for my wife to get home and compare. 

Did the car have the transfer case recall done? 

Before you go the route of buying it back and repairing it, make sure you understand the lien holder's requirements for insuring the vehicle.

Then talk to your insurance agent and see if they will provide the necessary level of coverage on a totaled and rebuilt vehicle to meet the requirements that you agreed to when taking out the loan. 

I'm going to guess that once it's been totaled, even after being rebuilt, that it will be difficult (if not impossible) to get collision and comprehensive insurance coverage that will meet the requirements of your loan on the vehicle. 

In reply to Chaulklet :

I mean this in the most friendly and non-offensive way, but why come here asking for advice, receive the same great advice from literal industry professionals and then choose to ignore it? I mean it's your choice/money/time obviously, but this seems a little bit counterintuitive.

Either way, good luck!

In reply to John Welsh :

Not to mention that it'll make a pretty severe dent in the eventual resale value of the car.

No Time said:

Before you go the route of buying it back and repairing it, make sure you understand the lien holder's requirements for insuring the vehicle.

Then talk to your insurance agent and see if they will provide the necessary level of coverage on a totaled and rebuilt vehicle to meet the requirements that you agreed to when taking out the loan. 

I'm going to guess that once it's been totaled, even after being rebuilt, that it will be difficult (if not impossible) to get collision and comprehensive insurance coverage that will meet the requirements of your loan on the vehicle. 

SF says the car is worth $23,000.  At the time of total the current loan holder will be paid in full from the $23,000.  That loan holder is satisfied and goes away.  

For simplicity lets say our man still owes $15,000

$23,000 - $15,000 (pay loan) = $7,000 remaining going to our man, but...

$7,000 - $3,700 (car buy back) = $3,300 in cash left over to fix the BMW.  Its gonna probably cost more than $3,300 to get it fixed so hes gonna take out an unsecured loan to get that money.  It will have to be an unsecured loan because no bank will lend against a car that is still "salvage" or not legal to drive on the road.  

But, if he owes more than $23,000...lets say he owes $24,000 and SF is only paying $23,000

$23,000 from SF - $24,000 (pay loan) = our man has to come up with $1,000 just to make the car go away.   

That negative $1,000 + $3,700 (car buy back) = $4,700 will need to be borrowed just to put a broken car in his driveway.  Then every dollar needed to put the car back on the road may need to be borrowed also  

In reply to John Welsh :

I saw that he had a note on the car and mentioned a personal loan, but the plan didn't click in my head until I read your post. 

Slippery said:

I can't for the life of me see what's wrong in what you highlighted. I'll have to wait for my wife to get home and compare. 
 

If you're talking about the underhood shot of the white car above, that photo is just a stock photo, copywrited 2012 of a brand new and perfectly fine BMW.

JAdams said:

In reply to Chaulklet :

I mean this in the most friendly and non-offensive way, but why come here asking for advice, receive the same great advice from literal industry professionals and then choose to ignore it?

Because it's not the answer he wanted

In reply to Chaulklet :

You mention that the current body shop has the car apart.  I don't know the shop but others here have strong opinions about them, so.  

The shop is not going to put the car back together any more than what is needed to make it roll.  SF is not paying them any further.  I just recommend that you fight to be sure that they put back in the car is every part that came off the car.  You may think, "why do a want a crumpled hood back?"   And, the answer is, "you want the hardware."   If the JY you get the new parts from doesn't include the hardware which is likely, you might be very surprised what a bunch a small and specific fasteners can cost.  

If they have done something like taken off a passenger door, do not expect that door to be put back on.  Be prepared to weatherproof and expect that door to be stored in the back seat or cargo area.  If in the back seat, be careful that the crumpled steel doesn't rip the leather because the body shop wont care.  If the car leaves the shop and goes anywhere else SF sends it before you buy it, expect there could be additional damage and you will not get compensated for that damage.  The tow company won't treat the car with any respect, they only know the car as a "totaled car".  

I once bought a Salvage Pontiac Vibe that was AWD.  It later become evident that the tow truck towed it with rear wheels down just like every other fwd Pontiac Vibe.  What do they care?  It's a junk car anyway.  

OP, not sure why you hate insurance companies.  You had an accident, which definitely sucks.  You brought the car to the shop of your choice, which just happens to be a horrendous shop.  The car is a total loss.  What did insurance do wrong?  

If you want to keep it, you will need to get the permission of your lienholder.  They likely will not agree to it, as they don't want to hold the note on a salvage car.  Therefore, you may need to payoff the loan before you can buy the salvage.

It's your car, you do you.  As an insider with decades in the business, I would again very strongly suggest that you follow the lead of Elsa...Let It Go, Let It Go.

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

OP, not sure why you hate insurance companies.  You had an accident, which definitely sucks.  You brought the car to the shop of your choice, which just happens to be a horrendous shop.  The car is a total loss.  What did insurance do wrong?  

My guess is insurance is lowballing him on the value of the car and pretty much telling him too bad. That's what they do. He does not have a vehicle through no fault of his own, and the people responsible for replacing it are giving him the run around. You'd be angry too. 

Steve_Jones said:

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

OP, not sure why you hate insurance companies.  You had an accident, which definitely sucks.  You brought the car to the shop of your choice, which just happens to be a horrendous shop.  The car is a total loss.  What did insurance do wrong?  

My guess is insurance is lowballing him on the value of the car and pretty much telling him too bad. That's what they do. He does not have a vehicle through no fault of his own, and the people responsible for replacing it are giving him the run around. You'd be angry too. 

Oh brother...  Not going to go diving into this rabbit hole again, but you're rather far off base.  Well, actually completely off base.

OP doesn't want his car totaled.  It's a total loss.  Yeah, that sucks, but cars get totaled all the time.  He does have the option to retain salvage, but given his scenario it will be very difficult and at least IMHO a very bad idea.

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

At the very least, if he does accept the total, he wants comparable value for it, not a number based on comps that are not the same equipment level and condition.

Interestingly, I ran into this exact scenario with a BMW wagon, albeit a much lower priced one. I'm a huge fan of the e46 generation wagons. Finding those with a manual transmission and the factory sport package is the proverbial hens' teeth. I had one previously that I shouldn't have sold and spent probably a year trying to find another. I finally found one and paid $9500 for it back in ~2016. It had ~100k miles, was in decent mechanical condition but needed cosmetic TLC.

Fast forward 51 weeks later and a woman ran a red light and nearly t-boned us (me driving, wife in the passenger seat, son sitting behind me) on the passenger side. I saw her at the last second, braked and steered to the left. She saw me at the last second and (luckily) steered to the right. She hit us in the front right quarter panel, effectively shifting the entire front end of the car to the left. Everyone in both cars was okay thankfully. As soon as we got out, I knew the car would be totaled.

Just like the OP's situation, I was 100% not at fault (I was sitting at a red light heading west. Light turned green, I proceed, other driver heading south, runs the red light, hits us on the far west side of the intersection). Nevertheless, I ended up getting paid $6k for the car. I protested mightily, including showing a receipt of what I had paid for the car less than 1 year prior. The comps the insurance company kept producing were non-wagon, non-sport package, non-manual transmission BMW 325i models. I repeatedly pointed out that it was apples and oranges and asked them to go find another wagon like mine. In the end, I got screwed, and for something that was 0% my fault (per the police report). 

I had to lawyer up for the elcamino so i didn't lose my ass when it was totalled. 

Ignoring the valuation issue for a moment, Klayfish hit on an important aspect. This car has a bank note on it. No lender will be interested in doing this salvage retention dance. You WILL have to pay the car off before you can do anything down the rebuild path. Until you solve that, the rest of the discussion is moot.

You'd best have a conversation with Cavallo's about their teardown and storage fees while all this plays out. They also won't be terribly interested in a customer pay scenario and you run the risk of being severely overcharged for everything because you aren't inside the industry and have no clue.

OMG, let this thing go. You really don't know the rabbit hole you are about to head down. Remember, Klayfish and I work in the business.

Your focus should be on getting a more realistic value for the car. In PA you can take the insurer to small claims court and 90% of the time you will win because district justices have a bias against the Big Evil Insurance Company. But, you'll want to get your car out of Cavallo's as you'll need to buy time and avoid their storage fees. Of course, SF will turn off the rental car while all this is going on so you'll need to provide your own transportation.

John Welsh said:

Slippery said:

I can't for the life of me see what's wrong in what you highlighted. I'll have to wait for my wife to get home and compare. 
 

If you're talking about the underhood shot of the white car above, that photo is just a stock photo, copywrited 2012 of a brand new and perfectly find BMW.

That is part of the crash structure, so if it's been moved it has to be replaced. That one peice is abou $250, is specific to the wagons and is a welded/glued in panel. If it's any deeper than that its a $1300 wheel house and about 8 hours of labor to install.

BMW's are NOT cheap to fix. Certified BMW shops are not plentiful. I know you like this car, but sometimes you just have to walk away. Having a loan on it makes it exponentially more difficult

Duke said:

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

At the very least, if he does accept the total, he wants comparable value for it, not a number based on comps that are not the same equipment level and condition.

 

Absolutely.  Comps for an uncommon car can be hard, so it can pose a challenge.  OP should show what comps are to help him get the true value of the car.

In reply to bobzilla :

Bob, 
You make comment that the crash structure piece is unique to the wagon.  This leads me to wonder...

The OP states he intends to use a sedan front clip to resurrect this wagon, but, is a sedan front clip the same as the wagon?  Is the part number for a front fender, hood or bumper cover the same for sedan and wagon? 

If not, this could be a large hurdle in sourcing used parts given that wagon are much more rare.  This wouldn't be the first time where "what seems like should work...doesn't."  I'm reminded of the old Volvo 760 sedan and 780 coupe, which seems like the same car in sedan and coupe form.  Though, the reality is that not a single body panel is shared between the two models.