LainfordExpress wrote: No worries, I started the thread because I'm looking for a little '80s coupe to play around with. I've started looking at the later 924S, which has the same engine as the base 944 and seem to generally be a little cheaper.
And lighter.
and narrower... I have always wanted a 924S dolled up to look like a Martini edition...
I would totally go with the RX7. I've spend some good quality time in a MKIII turbo, and it's a very comfy car with some decent power, and appearantly there's quite a bit of power locked in there, but they are very heavy, and not very stiff, and it is very noticable. And I'm biased to rx7's. spinning triangles for the win, until they turn into a blender and eat themselves. I never have driven a 944 that wasn't a completely neglegted junk pile, so i don't have a good reference for that.
rufledt said: but they are very heavy, and not very stiff,
Was it a Targa car? If so, that might explain it. Supposedly coupes are a lot stiffer...I am soon to find out...
I've found a local '87 924S but it has 150,000 mi. I suppose if the records are in order, I shouldn't be too worried.
How are these models for engine swaps? Anything cool that swaps in easily?
talk to Renegade Hybrids. They have everything you need to stuff an LS engine in a 924S.
Still very interested in feedback from folks who have built/tracked both the RX7 and the 944.
I have a line on a nice clean rust free RX7 for a good price thats in good enough shape to piddle with until I pull the trigger on a full go LSx build.
My major concerns are of course total capability but also in ease and cost of build. Easily sourceable brakes, suspension and maybe even aero products are considerations as well.
How scary is replacing the timing belt on 924S and 944 anyway? Looking around at 924.org people are talking ~$1200 for parts and labor from a specialist! And what's all this bull jazz about clutches being damn near impossible to replace?
it's pretty true. At work, a timing belt is an all day job, and at 90 an hour plus parts, it adds up pretty quickly.
Clutches are not impossible to replace, just time consuming. Usually involves moving the engine/torque tube forward and dropping the transaxle. Plus, a clutch kit is 550 ish dollars from Sachs.
Yeah, my torque tube needs to be swapped out sooner than later on my 951. I'm torn between the major amount of work needed to do it myself or pay a shop almost what I have into the car to have it done. I'll probably do it myself over a few days. I'm also probably going to do the clutch since I'll be all the way there, which will significantly increase the cost but will give peace of mind. I'm also going to do the timing belt this winter since I don't know when it was done. I don't think that'll be bad, just time consuming.
dsycks wrote: Still very interested in feedback from folks who have built/tracked both the RX7 and the 944. I have a line on a nice clean rust free RX7 for a good price thats in good enough shape to piddle with until I pull the trigger on a full go LSx build. My major concerns are of course total capability but also in ease and cost of build. Easily sourceable brakes, suspension and maybe even aero products are considerations as well.
FCs are pretty easy to do V-8 swaps with. Because the rotary's eccentric shaft is higher up on the engine than most piston engine crankshafts, the transmission tunnel is large. This makes it easy to install a T-56. The Turbo rear ends can handle up to 400hp. Most V-8/tranny combos weigh more than an N/A 13B but less than a turbo 13B and most of the V-8's weight is behind the front axle, so handling isn't messed up. This site can answer most of your questions and supply you with mounts if you can't fab them yourself:
http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/
The engine swap section of RX7Club.com, the Conversions/Hybrid section of LS1Tech.com, and NoRotors.com are also good resources.
RX-7 suspension and brake parts are still easy to come by. If you get a 4-lug car, do a 5-lug conversion before adding any power. The five-lug cars all came with much more powerful 4-piston front calipers and vented front and rear discs, plus 4-lug parts are becoming harder to find.
dyintorace has a FC convertible with an SBC in it, so he can give you driving impressions.
I used to DD a MK3 Supra Turbo. It was super comfy and got high twenties mpg. The handling is good but not up to RX7 levels and it is a heavy car. That said, ever since I sold mine I've thought it would be cool to get another one with the 1jzGTE and make it into a Targa Newfoundland/rally/hillclimb car. Those old Supras are tough as hell. Well, except for the headgaskets.
Platinum90 wrote:rufledt said: but they are very heavy, and not very stiff,Was it a Targa car? If so, that might explain it. Supposedly coupes are a lot stiffer...I am soon to find out...
yeah it was a targa. it wasn't too bad with the top on, it's pretty solidly built (hence all the weight), but with the top off it's terribly flexible. Not that anyone is gonna take the top off and do some autox or anything. I love the engine sound, though. Turbo sounds very audible. and yes I've heard only horror about the headgaskets, but that's alot easier to fix than RX7's tendancy to eat the apex seals.
Having not driven any of these cars I really have no reason to comment, but I think an FC convertible with an aluminum 5.3 truck motor & a good five speed like a Tremec TKO seem like a neat combination, and handling should be nearly identical to the original product.
Of the three, I immediately discount the German.
That leaves the 7 and the Supra.
At that point it depends on what you want. The 7 is lighter and more of a sports car, the Supra is built more solid and a better GT car.
The headgasket issue for 7Ms is because the factory shop manual has a too-light torque spec for the head bolts. Proper torque spec can be found online, and once the headbolts are torqued to it, the 7M has no more headgasket issues than any other motor.
LainfordExpress wrote: How scary is replacing the timing belt on 924S and 944 anyway? Looking around at 924.org people are talking ~$1200 for parts and labor from a specialist! And what's all this bull jazz about clutches being damn near impossible to replace?
Really shouldn't be that hard. I haven't changed the belt on my 924S racecar yet, but the P.O. said he changed it (and I think the belt of the balancer) every year as preventative maintenance. It's front and center, with plenty of room to work around.
Granted this is a race car, so he took off some of the extra shielding and there are no accessories being driven off the engine to get in the way.
I also hear clutches are a pain in the tuchus to replace, but I hear plenty about two guys getting it done in their garage with the normal tools we pretty much all have. Not easy or fun, but doable. The fact that my 924S had just had the clutch replaced was a big plus in me buying it.
Selfish bump as I am a greedy boy who wants more input.
Random Supra factoid. The MK3 and MK4 share almost all of their suspension components. They also share differentials and NA MK4 tranny = NA MK3 tranny.
Other random Supra factoid. You can get MK3's imported from Canada with a twin turbo 2.5L I6. If I bought another Supra, this is the route I'd go. The 1JZGTE is just a short stroke version of the 2JZGTE. It's every bit as tough and every bit as mod friendly. Getting 400 dead reliably horsepower would be cake, or if revs are your thing, they spin to 9k plus with valve springs.
Another random Supra factoid. You definitely want to upgrade the intercooler. Stone age seems a fitting description for the stock piece. Turbo transmissions, though, are very tough.
Random Supra factoid 4: Upgrade the brakepads right away. Ask me how I know a 3450 lb car with 300 hp needs good pads. Stock is not sufficient.
Final random Supra factoid. The lightest MK3 I've found is just under 2800 lbs, and it's a full on track car. That said, it's not that hard to get a MK3 down to 3200 lbs or so. Mine, almost bone stock, was 3450 ish.
dsycks wrote: Selfish bump as I am a greedy boy who wants more input.
What other input would you like? I've never driven a 944, but I have a N/A FC I have autocrossed before and a turbo FC project.
924S seems like the hot ticket from what I'm finding online, lighter, same motor (and, unfortunately same timing belt issues) but cheaper and without the aluminum control arm/ball joint nonsense.
MrBenjamonkey wrote: Final random Supra factoid. The lightest MK3 I've found is just under 2800 lbs, and it's a full on track car. That said, it's not that hard to get a MK3 down to 3200 lbs or so. Mine, almost bone stock, was 3450 ish.
I am aiming squarely to trounce that "record". I would like to get it below 2700, eventually, with lots of composite work.
RexSeven wrote: What other input would you like? I've never driven a 944, but I have a N/A FC I have autocrossed before and a turbo FC project.
Your input was great! I am hoping to get someone who may be able to give me an idea oh how one feels compared to the other with maybe some focus on the 944s strong and weak suits.
I guess my bottom line is which one will end up being a better track toy for less cost and headache... luckily they both seem good!
Platinum90 wrote:MrBenjamonkey wrote: Final random Supra factoid. The lightest MK3 I've found is just under 2800 lbs, and it's a full on track car. That said, it's not that hard to get a MK3 down to 3200 lbs or so. Mine, almost bone stock, was 3450 ish.I am aiming squarely to trounce that "record". I would like to get it below 2700, eventually, with lots of composite work.
Composite work. Do you mean CF or fiberglass?
dsycks wrote:RexSeven wrote: What other input would you like? I've never driven a 944, but I have a N/A FC I have autocrossed before and a turbo FC project.Your input was great! I am hoping to get someone who may be able to give me an idea oh how one feels compared to the other with maybe some focus on the 944s strong and weak suits. I guess my bottom line is which one will end up being a better track toy for less cost and headache... luckily they both seem good!
From what I'm reading online, the weak points of the 944 is
1) Bi-annual timing belt replacement. 2) Later cars have aluminum control arms with non-replaceable ball joints, so if the ball joint goes bad, you have to replace the entire thing at $600 instead of just a ball joint at $30. 3) It's a Porsche/German so having somebody work on it is spendy.
On the bright side; It's a Porsche!
RexSeven wrote: dyintorace has a FC convertible with an SBC in it, so he can give you driving impressions.
Yes and no. I do have an FC convertible, but it has an L33 in it. That's the aluminum block 5.3L motor from Chevy extended cab pickups. It has a T56 behind it.
Before that, I had an FC coupe with a built LS1/T56 combo. I did a track day it in and the power was phenomenal. It overwhelmed the stock 4 pot Turbo II brakes! 
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