Teach me about diesel swaps.

Keith Tanner wrote: I'm not interested in building up a full tilt big inch Caddy motor. I'm more interested in the cost to rebuild what's in there I'm thinking a Escalade 6.0 is far more likely. But it's fun to dream.

That's my thought. A mild 6.0 will be on par with a smooth (read: low compression and small cam) 472/500 as far as torque, make way more power, and probably get better fuel economy than whatever diesel you cram under the hood. And it'll leak less, cost less...

Yeah, they're boring. But the car is supposed to be boring, isn't it?

Find a Ford 7.3 turbo powerstroke from a van/truck. Get a tuner and tune for mpg.

Knurled wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: I'm not interested in building up a full tilt big inch Caddy motor. I'm more interested in the cost to rebuild what's in there I'm thinking a Escalade 6.0 is far more likely. But it's fun to dream.

That's my thought. A mild 6.0 will be on par with a smooth (read: low compression and small cam) 472/500 as far as torque, make way more power, and probably get better fuel economy than whatever diesel you cram under the hood. And it'll leak less, cost less... Yeah, they're boring. But the car is supposed to be boring, isn't it?

This exact thought just ran through my mind. I wonder how close they could get in economy?

I've seen rollover Silverado HD LLYs, complete trucks for ~5-6k. You could part out the remnants. I'll cast my vote for Dirtymax power. They actually offered Duramax 2WD with a manual transmission.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: DURAMAX Find a wrecked truck and buy the whole thing. Swap over whatever you need. Done.

It worked for this Grand National build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x2t6BK3E_0

nicksta43 wrote: The going rate for a used Duramax complete with a computer, wiring harness, and Allison transmission is about $7,000.

This is highly dependent on location. Around here you can get a rusted beat up farm truck for that price and have a complete drivetrain. Somewhere else to look: U-Haul trucks!

There was a Caddy that had a diesel engine in the 80's I think it was the BMW engine, perhaps find a car with one already in it.

In reply to trigun7469:

I think it was Lincoln Mark 7 or whatever.

RossD wrote: In reply to trigun7469: I think it was Lincoln Mark 7 or whatever.

You are right I ment the Deville that had the 1980–82: 5.7 L Diesel 105 hp Caddy.

What could a gas engine get for hwy MPG vs. Diesel? Would you expect 30+mpg out of a gas engine?

Remember big two door car. Chrysler Newport, Pontiac Bonneville, Cadillac. Early seventies only.

In reply to nicksta43:

Nothing.

I'd second the GM 6.5 diesel. Get one of the turbo versions from the first year or two that had the mechanical injection pump, mechanical wastegate and no computer.

You can get over 400 ft-lb out of it reliably, and with OD get mpg in the low to mid 20's on the highway. My 6.5 NA in a 4wd pickup with 3.73 gears would get 21mpg on the highway without OD as long as you kept it under 70mph.

Relatively cheap, easy to fit, and simple and cheap to maintain.

Or find a deal like this http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/4541481509.html

fidelity101 wrote: In reply to nicksta43: Nothing.

I believe it's possible.

Detonation beats up bearings, pops head gaskets, and blows holes through pistons, but without ignition spark, diesels live in a world where harmful detonation doesn't exist.

That's one thin caveat away from being totally misleading.

Diesels run ON detonation. The fact that the fuel is not present in the cylinder until a 'safe' crank angle is the thing that prevents it from being harmful to a diesel. It doesn't have anything to do with the lack of spark ignition.

Also, this thread is relevant to my interests.. carry on..

nicksta43 wrote: What could a gas engine get for hwy MPG vs. Diesel? Would you expect 30+mpg out of a gas engine?

I wouldn't expect that from a diesel either.

I had an early "Big Bird" and could knock down 23-24mpg on highway with the carbureted, points ignition 429. More normally 20mpg. I'm certain that something more modern drivetrain-wise could do better in the same chassis, on $3.50 gasoline instead of $4.10 diesel.

In reply to Knurled:

I think it would take tuning and careful selection of gear ratios along with some aero work but I definitely think a modern diesel with modern management would be capable of 30 on the highway in a two and a half ton package.

Diesel and regular are moving closer in my area. Just got regular at $3.72 and the same station had diesel at $3.95.

nicksta43 wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

tooms351 wrote: You'll prolly have weight and hood clearance issuese.

In addition to it rattling your teeth out.

That's not what I'm looking for. These new heavy duty trucks are civilized, not rattling, loud or coal rolling. Which one is most swappable.

Hands down, the easiest you'll find is the 6.2/6.5L chevy/detroit engines. They will never make 4-figure HP numbers, and they sometimes make wee puffs of black smoke, but they are as reliable as the mail. They are relatively quiet, but they have very high compression so there is a bit of cackle. They were designed to be a direct bolt-in anywhere a big block chevy was used. Engine mounts, transmission bolt patterns, etc. Same basic size, weight, etc.

Next easiest would be an early Duramax swap. LB7 is the first generation (04-05) and is great, but it will need injectors at 150k. LLY and LBZ are the hot tickets; VVTN turbo, and pre-DPF (particulate filter). Swapping in an Duramax is about as difficult as a gas EFI swap would be.

I'm saving my pennies for a Powerstroke 6.7L swap in my 66 Bonneville. Talk about smooth and quiet.

If you happen to do a 6.2/6.5L swap, let me know. I have a killer torque converter for a TH400 custom built by Continental. I payed something like $475 for it but I'll let it go cheap. It stalls super low - great for MPG and diesel torque.

I could imagine an easy 30+ mpg in a car with the 6.2/6.5L

nicksta43 wrote: What could a gas engine get for hwy MPG vs. Diesel? Would you expect 30+mpg out of a gas engine? Remember big two door car. Chrysler Newport, Pontiac Bonneville, Cadillac. Early seventies only.

Gas engine in a boat like that, you'll be lucky to get 20. 14-17 is more likely. I had a 454 in a 73 Impala S/W and I consistently got 9 in town and 11-13 on the highway. I had a 75 Caddy 500 in my 66 Bonneville for a while and with incredibly fine-tuning the Qjet, carefully tuning the spark curve, 2.73 rear gears, and a tight converter, I could get 17 mpg on the highway.

Diesels often get 20+ in dually trucks with 4.10 gears.

There is no comparison when it comes to fuel cost. People who complain about diesel fuel being expensive must have failed at math 101.

Let's say your big gas caddy gets 20 mpg (which is giving it the benefit of the doubt by about 5 mpg). Assuming $3.50/gal for gas. Drop in a diesel and start getting 30 mpg. That means the crossover point for breaking even on fuel cost is $5.25/gal. So, the $4/gal you are actually paying for diesel is a monumental savings. Every mile you drive (in this example) is 5 cents cheaper on fuel with diesel. Take one thousand-mile trip and you saved $50. Every 5000 miles that is $250. That's more than enough to cover all that horrific maintenance that everyone thinks diesels have.

RossD wrote: Find a Ford 7.3 turbo powerstroke from a van/truck. Get a tuner and tune for mpg.

Too heavy, front end won't hold up.

Kenny_McCormic wrote:

RossD wrote: Find a Ford 7.3 turbo powerstroke from a van/truck. Get a tuner and tune for mpg.

Too heavy, front end won't hold up.

Meh... most of these diesels are pretty heavy and will need beefing up.

I'm thinking air bags and most if these steering systems are pretty robust.

nicksta43 wrote: I'm thinking air bags and most if these steering systems are pretty robust.

Yeah. High pressure recirc ball systems like GM used are bulletproof. I might install a cooler in the return line.

might also box the channels of the lower control arms. Or there are aftermarket tubular arms that are way beefy.

Or you could do what I did on my 66 Bonny... graft on the spindles, brakes, and other goodies from the truck. Just modify/strengthen the arms and bingo.

Count the lug nuts.

curtis73 wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote:

RossD wrote: Find a Ford 7.3 turbo powerstroke from a van/truck. Get a tuner and tune for mpg.

Too heavy, front end won't hold up.

Meh... most of these diesels are pretty heavy and will need beefing up.

6.2/6.5 is only 200lbs or so more than a SBC, anything built with a BBC in mind will handle that fine. That's almost negligible in a 70s Cadillac.