bobzilla said:MotorsportsGordon said:Gm wasn't beat by Ford in buying Jag they looked at it and realized there wasn't anything worth buying at Jaguar just a huge money pit.
I want to argue this but you're right.
My favorite part about the Ford acquisition of Jag is that supposedly at one point the CEO was reviewing the list of highest paid Ford employees and said "Who the hell is Edmund Irvine?" :)
Datsun310Guy said:Datsun A engine - 65hp? Ate head gaskets? No real power but they lived from 1967 to 2009. Shoot, our forklift at work had one.
Now I had 2 cars and really enjoyed them so I'm now bashing too much but on paper they weren't cool engines stock.
Hopefully I don't run into that 50 year 1200 racer.........
Too late.......and they do not eat head gaskets. You have to severely overheat them to do that.
All of the machines shops I've used over the years made comments about how stout the blocks are.
Also the stock bottom ends can be revved to 8600 rpm all long.
Yes, yes I am a fan of them. LOL
Two strokes; people who've never ran or tuned one act like they will sieze if you even look at them funny.
They are lighter, make more power and are easier to service than four strokes.
maschinenbau said:ProDarwin said:Here is one that isn't necessarily horrible, just forgotten: G4JS 2.4L found in garbage appliances from Hyundai and Mitsubishi.
Someone slapped a big turbo on this guy and made 500whp on stock internals.
One of my weirdest coworkers is doing an incredibly clean but esoteric Hyundai G4CS DOHC swap and turbo build in his...get this...2nd gen Sonata 5-speed. I love the Korean/DSM licensed stuff.
I put a g4cs in my Galant Vr4 to replace the 4g63 I had in it. Easy displacement but I had it destroked with longer rods. Was a great setup until a hurricane floated the car away while I was in Afghanistan 
While it's been somewhat discussed, no one has mentioned the 4g63. The whole crankwalk thing was blown way out of proportion.
80s tech that still kicks ass today.
In reply to Scotty Con Queso :
I think anything called a "common issue", cannot be called blown out of proportion. 4g63 was an amazing little motor, with a pretty significant issue. You can have both.
I am a little surprised that any 4G63s lived long enough to have bearing issues given that they had a tendency to break timing belts before 50k. Or get improperly serviced and lose the belt a week after replacement.
Mopar 2.4s also had thrust bearing issues, to the point that there was a dealer service kit. I've done a few, including one that needed the block repaired.
Tom1200 said:Two strokes; people who've never ran or tuned one act like they will sieze if you even look at them funny.
They are lighter, make more power and are easier to service than four strokes.
Bad crank seals don't make a 4-stroke run like garbage, they just drip a little.
4-strokes also don't stink, sound awful or have a power curve like a light switch.
In reply to ShawnG :
4 strokes just stink different, 2 stokes sound awesome with a pipe, and you circumvent the peaky power by running it WFO all-the-time. 
Growl_R said:How 'bout Volkswagen's VR6 and it's W8, 12 and 16 variants?
Used in VW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, and Bugatti
Compact, can make power and SOUND AWESOME!
Sell me on this. If I pick up the AE70 Corolla I'm hoping for, I'll be looking for something that fits where a 4-banger was and makes lots of gooder power. I just know nothing about them.
In reply to Tom1200 :
I'm a big fan of these cars - don't get me wrong.
Our '79 210 and '80 310GX both needed head gaskets. I guess back then 80-90,000 miles wasn't really "eating head gaskets".
I follow all your posts on your 1200 - keep it running.
The old Toyota K series 4-cylinder was a lot like Datsuns A-series.
Great little screamer once you let them breathe better and get the compression up. 9k rpm on stock innards was never a problem.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
A friend had a 2G GSX with a thrust bearing so bad it would stall when you hit the clutch. Not saying they all had that issue, but we sure hear about the squeaky wheel.
Direct injection could fix alot of 2 stroke issues. I think it was rotax that built a di 2 stroke that made good power & passed modern emissions. If they are not missfiring every other revolution until they "get on the pipe" they should not be as peaky either.
Some Datsun A engine love for you'all
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Growl_R said:How 'bout Volkswagen's VR6 and it's W8, 12 and 16 variants?
Used in VW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, and Bugatti
Compact, can make power and SOUND AWESOME!
Sell me on this. If I pick up the AE70 Corolla I'm hoping for, I'll be looking for something that fits where a 4-banger was and makes lots of gooder power. I just know nothing about them.
The biggest issue with them IMO is the cooling system. Look at that water jacket design. A lot of volume and high volume means poor velocity which means dead areas which means poor cooling system efficiency. And half of the exhaust ports are super long so you get the same problems that you get with a Flathead Ford.
As one VWAG enthusiast put it, they make for good drag engines but not anything where you want to lean on it for a long time.
IMO an 07K five cylinder is a better option. It fits where a four fits because they stuffed half the timing chain in the bellhousing and the other half over the transmission, like the VR6. Equal length ports, a much better combustion chamber design. They also bolt in anywhere a VW four fits because it shares the bellhousing pattern and IIRC the flywheel pattern (except for the turbo models which had 8 bolts).
Personal preference says a five sounds better than a six, too 
Downsides are that you are on your own for a longitudinal friendly intake manifold, there is no place to mount a motor mount on the left side except for the oil filter pad which means the mount has to incorporate fluid lines, and most of then had dual plane accessory drive so you kinda need the A/C compressor if you want to drive the water pump. THAT can be fixed with an electric pump, at least, and it looks like the BMW pump is fairly swappable as the thermostat assembly bolts to it and it defaults to full speed if it does not get a PWM signal.
In reply to ShawnG :
As was the Mitsubishi Saturn. I put a lot of hard laps on 4G32's at decent RPM and you couldn't hurt them
Caperix said:Direct injection could fix alot of 2 stroke issues. I think it was rotax that built a di 2 stroke that made good power & passed modern emissions. If they are not missfiring every other revolution until they "get on the pipe" they should not be as peaky either.
There was a company, Orbital I think, that developed direct injection 20-odd years ago for the purpose of making two-strokes emissions friendly. They had a 2 liter inline six in a BMW 3 series test car that was supposedly very nice to drive. Sounded like a little V12 from reports, too
One of the downsides of 2 strokes is they can be a bit narrow-ranged in the RPM/load plane, and another is that they don't much like high speed/closed throttle. Both issues which could be circumvented by their use as an EV/series hybrid range extender instead of driving the wheels directly.
Which also brings me to what Audi (which owns NSU) and Mazda are planning with Wankels.
Caperix said:Direct injection could fix alot of 2 stroke issues. I think it was rotax that built a di 2 stroke that made good power & passed modern emissions. If they are not missfiring every other revolution until they "get on the pipe" they should not be as peaky either.
Rotax is part of brp which also owns evinrude which produced 2 stroke outboard boat engines that met modern emissions reps.
In reply to lnlogauge :
The 4g63 crankwalk issue was related to some 95-97 7-bolt blocks. The early 6-bolts/7-bolts and the later 98-99 7-bolts had next to zero issues with crankwalk. What I'm getting at is when you mention a 4g63, the mouth-breathers usually start saying "haha crankwalk those motors suck!!!!haha".
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
You're not wrong on timing belts. While easy enough to properly time a 4g63, there is a very specific way to tension the belt. So much so that most people did it wrong and lunched the valve train.
Scotty Con Queso said:In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
You're not wrong on timing belts. While easy enough to properly time a 4g63, there is a very specific way to tension the belt. So much so that most people did it wrong and lunched the valve train.
Where I used to work when those were common, getting it wrong was so common that Corporate issued a memo that all 4G63 timing belts were to be done by ONE person, who was the roving tech for all 17 locations.
He was friends with one of the Buschurs (who apprently used to work for the company) and he called them to chat about 4G63s, and they said that when they did a timing belt they would drop the whole drivetrain out so they could do it without a fenderwell in the way.
IIRC the issue was that there was a cammed idler pulley to adjust AND a hydraulic tensioner, and you had to get the cammed pulley just right for the hydraulic tensioner to be in a certain range. So you needed three hands, a vernier, and the body was exactly in the way.
I recall a couple cases where a tech went out on a road test for an alignment or something and the timing belt broke.
Pontiac Sprint 6 is an engine I've been wanting to find and mess with, but nobody makes parts for them- so each Delorean I6 when it dies, it's parts are transplanted into other pontiacs to keep them alive. I heard people claim that the belts snap, even though they were even rated for engine life in the late 60s.
Maybe the Olds/Buick Quad 4? That engine was a serious competitor to the 4A-GE and Honda D/B series, just undone by classic GM internal warring.
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
The Quad 4 HO made the same power from the same displacement as the contemporary M3. Sadly they were put in N bodies, which were stretched J bodies which were "not invented here" bastardizations of the Opel Kadett.
and now I want a Quad 4 in a Pontiac LeMans.
Unfortunately they were not equipped with balance shafts and the engine was GM's lesson in not using a sheetmetal timing cover on a chain fed DOHC if you want good NVH. The 2.4 gained balance shafts, which helped immensely, and it gained head bolts twice as long which helped head gasket life too.
People say the Ecotec was a SAAB design, but when I see one I see a Quad 4 with its problems removed. Same block layout, even drove the power steering pump from a camshaft on models with hydraulic power steering.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Growl_R said:How 'bout Volkswagen's VR6 and it's W8, 12 and 16 variants?
Used in VW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, and Bugatti
Compact, can make power and SOUND AWESOME!
Sell me on this. If I pick up the AE70 Corolla I'm hoping for, I'll be looking for something that fits where a 4-banger was and makes lots of gooder power. I just know nothing about them.
Much as an E70 with extra cylinders would be fun, my inclination as a fellow (former) E70 owner would be to put one of these engines in it:
5-valve 4AGE from an AE111, because they sound awesome and make 160hp out of the gate, with a bit more on the table if you want. Plus, factory ITB's. Did I mention the awesome sound? They sound awesome. Likely my favorite 4-cylinder sound ever. Something about Yamaha makes good sounds. They should make instruments and audio equipment, they clearly know what they're doing! =P
3SGE Beams, if you wanna keep it in the family but want an easy 200+hp.
K20/K24 if you wanna drop a few lbs, add displacement, and make Formual Atlantic power without FA maintenance.
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