The future of car infotainment?

I read through this article earlier today and it made me wonder what screens in cars are going to look like 5, 10, or 20 years from now?

I think this is a worst case scenario almost - mutliple hardware types, way too many screens, multiple OS, in a flagship vehicle, on seriously underpowered tech.  So I wouldn't expect greatness from that.  But Android Automotive (note, this is NOT Android Auto - please see article) and <insert other software> on dedicated outdated hardware seems like a silly design IMO as its going to become slow, outdated, obsolete, even unsupported really quickly relative to the rest of the vehicle.

In my head I assumed that as Android Auto and Carplay got better and better (and actually wireless, WTF is so hard there?), the need for 'smarts' in the vehicle would actually decrease and the norm would just be to piggyback off the phone of the driver or passenger.  This seems to be headed completely in another direction.

Note that this isn't just the GM vehicle in the article:  

The same basic setup powers the Hummer EV1, and with all of the parts-sharing that goes on at GM, expect to see this system pop up in Chevys, GMCs, Cadillacs, and Buicks. With Ford and Honda jumping into the Android Automotive ecosystem in the near future, Google's car OS will soon be everywhere.

I wonder what the other giants are planning for their cars?

In reply to ProDarwin :

I am 100% with you.  The electronics and apps will be obsolete far before the rest of the vehicle will.

We've reached a "good enough" screen resolution that built-in displays can expect to have a decent service life without looking like a 1998 video game.  Yes, handheld device displays will keep getting better but the digital dashboard can show what it needs to show clearly and attractively.

Since people tend to get new phones every couple years, why not capitalize on that?  Make your connection interface as robust as possible and stop trying to make your car be a smartphone too.

I don't like the idea of tying a durable - a car - to an ephemeral consumer device. Tying cars to phones is exactly the wrong choice for the exact reason that they get replaced every couple of years.

Examples from my own garage over the past few weeks. These are all vehicles that were trying to interface with state of the art when they were new.
- 2002 BMW M5. Was built to work with analog phones. What analog phones?
- 2010 Dodge 2500. Has a built-in cable to run a media player. A 30 pin iPod or iPhone. And of course, it's on a proprietary Dodge cable, not something like a USB so it's not like I can plug something else in.
- 2009 Porsche 911. Not only does have have a 30 pin iPod connector, it's too early to actually have power. So you can either listen to your iPod or you can charge your iPod, but you can't do both. OK, this was just screwed up from the start but it still works as an example.
 

Saying the screens are "good enough" sounds cool now, but I'll bet the screen in that M5 was "good enough" 20 years ago too. And heck, if you're going to have a USB port, what flavor of USB should be it? The standard USB-A or the new hotness USB-C? Doesn't matter, because in 10 years it'll be something else.

Cars should be standalone as much as possible, they should not rely on consumer electronics. Any interface with consumer electronics beyond basic Bluetooth will have a lifespan of a few cycles at best.

There is hope for the BMW, I can get a direct replacement for the head unit that has Car Play and the Android thing and streaming and can probably play pron as I drive down the road. I'm sure it's well engineered, it's on AliExpress :)

I remember driving test cars with 20-pin connectors–and it seemed to cutting-edge for a minute. 

I still yearn for the days when all you got was a radio with two knobs.

In reply to stuart in mn :

No matter how far we push infotainment, volume should always get a knob. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Please, Please, please! Let  self driving be working perfectly.  Head down trying to get/ find/ select / whatever  you're looking for.  That's alway when stuff happens. When you're not paying attention. 

I'm not a fan of the highly integrated infotainment. My 1995 suburban had the stock double din, not what I wanted so I added an apple car play compatible touch screen. It was great fit my needs and could go back to the old tape deck or be upgraded again. My 2011 Escalade has a highly integrated touch screen with navigation. The navigation sucks, the touchscreen is aged and they are delicate. I can't upgrade it easily (cheap). I think the manufacturers need to remember that the electronics will become outdated, and probably soon...

Keith Tanner said:

, I can get a direct replacement for the head unit that has Car Play and the Android thing and streaming and can probably play pron as I drive down the road. I'm sure it's well engineered, it's on AliExpress :)

 I mean, "German automotive electronics are so reliable and user-friendly" said nobody, ever. The stuff on AliExpress probably works better than most of the factory BMW stuff anyhow (the Chinese Joying android head unit in my Sequoia is lightyears better than the OEM one in my late-model GTI...)

stuart in mn said:

I still yearn for the days when all you got was a radio with two knobs.

Until you want to actually listen. The best stereo that my family owns is in the Hyundai.

NY Nick said:

 I think the manufacturers need to remember that the electronics will become outdated, and probably soon...

Except they don't care. Their goal is to sell you on the hottest new thing NOW (at huge markups, of course). If it's obsolete 7 years down the road (along with your warranty), that's just more of a reason for you to buy a NEW car from them. Giving you the option of easily installing new ICE into your 7-year-old car when the factory stuff stops working just gives you incentive to keep the car longer (not buy a new one). 

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

NY Nick said:

 I think the manufacturers need to remember that the electronics will become outdated, and probably soon...

Except they don't care. Their goal is to sell you on the hottest new thing NOW (at huge markups, of course). If it's obsolete 7 years down the road (along with your warranty), that's just more of a reason for you to buy a NEW car from them. Giving you the option of easily installing new ICE into your 7-year-old car when the factory stuff stops working just gives you incentive to keep the car longer (not buy a new one). 

 

This. Like I WISH tech today leaned towards long-term use and reliability/reparability, but the market clearly doesn't; and I'm a guy who gets 5-6 years out of every smartphone he's ever owned!

I am willing to allow them to use whatever ecosystem and OS they want no mater how obsolete it becomes as long as the following conditions are met:

1. I never have to have a username/password to "login" to my car
2. The cars infotainment system NEVER has ads.  I don't want "front Windshield Defrost mode brought to you by CITIBANK" or "Watch this 30 second ad to unlock seat heater level 4".
3. No subscriptions to make bought features work.  In fact just no subscription ever.

I am willing to tolerate all manner of proprietary shenanigans as long as this is agreeable to the the MFR.

I guess we are long past having  a standard size DIN radio that with a Face plate can fit most cars...

When the modern ones die it will cost a fortune to replace , if there is even a replacement to buy :(

Back in 1989 we designed a phone handset  holder for the  Dodge Minivan that had the phone unit hard wired in the sun visor .  back in the day of "Car Phones"

Keith Tanner said:

I don't like the idea of tying a durable - a car - to an ephemeral consumer device. Tying cars to phones is exactly the wrong choice for the exact reason that they get replaced every couple of years.

Examples from my own garage over the past few weeks. These are all vehicles that were trying to interface with state of the art when they were new.
- 2002 BMW M5. Was built to work with analog phones. What analog phones?
- 2010 Dodge 2500. Has a built-in cable to run a media player. A 30 pin iPod or iPhone. And of course, it's on a proprietary Dodge cable, not something like a USB so it's not like I can plug something else in.
- 2009 Porsche 911. Not only does have have a 30 pin iPod connector, it's too early to actually have power. So you can either listen to your iPod or you can charge your iPod, but you can't do both. OK, this was just screwed up from the start but it still works as an example.

Those are all good examples, however, in all those examples when the consumer technology connection becomes obsolete, the rest of the system continues to work.  You can still listen to the radio, play CD, USB mp3, or whatever media the car supports.

Now the manufacturer is running basically ancient cell phone levels of processing power, and a phone os (Android).  What happens when that becomes outdated?  Nothing works?

Screen only may one day become outdated, but I think its more future proof in the sense that with a standard USB connection there will likely always be a device around that can plug into it and drive it.  It may become a specialized device in the future as eventually any sort of plug will disappear from phones all together.

I think of it like computer/monitor combos.  An original iMac is outdated as hell, but a screen from the year 2000 can easily be driven by modern hardware.  Now, if it were kept off the grid entirely, would the iMac continue to work?  probably?  maybe?  But its interface will be limited with modern tech I imagine.

All that said, my 2013 Kia bluetooth will no longer connect to a phone made in 2022.  Thats the quickest a radio has become outdated in my experience.

Infotainment Distracts 

• Touchscreens have become a common sight in new cars, with manufacturers saying these infotainment systems are safer than a cluttered mess of knobs and buttons.
• A group of automotive journalists in Sweden put these claims to the test by timing the infotainment functions of 11 brand-new models alongside a 2005 Volvo V70 with no screen.
• The results show a spread of efficiently designed menus and intelligent screen placement alongside slow and complex user interfaces and poorly angled displays.

BMW Says Screens Will Vanish 

Zipse says console-based screens are distracting; BMW teases head-up display tech

If manufacturers were smart, they'd make the infotainment system a separate item.

Look, here's our new MEGA screen with Gigabuttons. Upgrade now for just 12,332 credits!

All I can think of is Wheels and Roadie, the sentient computers from the 80s cartoon Pole Position where the heroes plug the computer modules into the cars.

I was going to say it will have a credit card slot.

But you dont need that anymore with internet pay.

Yes, what I am alluding to is I expect it will be subscription based.

>>>>>>>>> Insert Coin >>>>>>>>>>

ProDarwin said:

Keith Tanner said:

I don't like the idea of tying a durable - a car - to an ephemeral consumer device. Tying cars to phones is exactly the wrong choice for the exact reason that they get replaced every couple of years.

Examples from my own garage over the past few weeks. These are all vehicles that were trying to interface with state of the art when they were new.
- 2002 BMW M5. Was built to work with analog phones. What analog phones?
- 2010 Dodge 2500. Has a built-in cable to run a media player. A 30 pin iPod or iPhone. And of course, it's on a proprietary Dodge cable, not something like a USB so it's not like I can plug something else in.
- 2009 Porsche 911. Not only does have have a 30 pin iPod connector, it's too early to actually have power. So you can either listen to your iPod or you can charge your iPod, but you can't do both. OK, this was just screwed up from the start but it still works as an example.

Those are all good examples, however, in all those examples when the consumer technology connection becomes obsolete, the rest of the system continues to work.  You can still listen to the radio, play CD, USB mp3, or whatever media the car supports.

Now the manufacturer is running basically ancient cell phone levels of processing power, and a phone os (Android).  What happens when that becomes outdated?  Nothing works?

Screen only may one day become outdated, but I think its more future proof in the sense that with a standard USB connection there will likely always be a device around that can plug into it and drive it.  It may become a specialized device in the future as eventually any sort of plug will disappear from phones all together.

I think of it like computer/monitor combos.  An original iMac is outdated as hell, but a screen from the year 2000 can easily be driven by modern hardware.  Now, if it were kept off the grid entirely, would the iMac continue to work?  probably?  maybe?  But its interface will be limited with modern tech I imagine.

All that said, my 2013 Kia bluetooth will no longer connect to a phone made in 2022.  Thats the quickest a radio has become outdated in my experience.

What happens when the phone OS becomes outdated is that it continues to work, but things that depended on a cell connection will go away. Like the BMW's analog phone and integrated roadside assistance. Or like all the cars that have built in 3G modems to do stuff, anything you did via an app is dead. So really, we're demanding that the car be able to function without a data connection or an app, which is reasonable even when new. I live in an area where I can be out of cell service by driving 5 miles from my house. If my car is reliant on a data connection, it will fall down every time I drive into town.

Have you tried driving a 2000-era screen from modern hardware? It's not gonna plug in. There will be some modifications involved. Heck, even driving the screen from my old 2014 iMac isn't possible from my 2022 Mac Mini without getting into cracking the case and rewiring. And the old iMac will definitely work if you fire it up now. It'll work as well as ever. If you put it online, it might be susceptible to attacks and it may not be able to parse a lazily coded website because of the sheer amount of extra crap that's loaded with it, but it'll still be able to do what it needs to do. I was using my Windows 95 box occasionally three years ago.

It's notable that the AliExpress replacement for my BMW's center stack comes with a new screen. It looks exactly the same, but apparently driving the old one wasn't worthwhile enough to keep it.

So again, I'm not seeing how making the consumer device do all the work is a benefit. The iPod connection in my truck was obsolete less than 12 months after I took delivery of the thing. It doesn't have bluetooth for music, only phone calls. The one external connection that isn't obsolete is the aux jack, but consumer devices don't come with 1/8" headphone jacks anymore. So basically, anything that relied on a consumer device is dead and has been for years.

Heck, you mentioned a "standard USB connection". What does that look like? Is it USB-A, which is the one that was everywhere until just recently? Is it USB-C, which is the current new hotness? 

In reply to ProDarwin :

That's odd, my 2013 Kia will connect to my 2020 Android phone without too much trouble. It doesn't integrate fast forward and rewind, but it will play sounds.

MadScientistMatt said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

That's odd, my 2013 Kia will connect to my 2020 Android phone without too much trouble. It doesn't integrate fast forward and rewind, but it will play sounds.

Mine would connect to my android.  I switched to an iPhone 13 and it will sometimes connect.  But most of the time it just says "pairing failed".  I have to go in and 'forget device' on both the phone and the car and try again, and again.  Sometimes it will connect again, but then 1 or 2 startups later it fails.  Its obnoxious.  There are numerous people who have reported this (kia forums).

As a side note, why it doesn't include a pause button is mind boggling.

Keith Tanner said:

Have you tried driving a 2000-era screen from modern hardware? It's not gonna plug in.

The other day at work I was setting up some "hoteling" stations for hybrid work and I noticed that one dock someone was using (standard, modern, Dell dock) had a VGA connection and a VGA cable plugged into it.  It was shocking, but there it was.  I know I have seen HDMI - VGA cables used around the office as well due to some archaic conference room screens.

Keith Tanner said:

Heck, you mentioned a "standard USB connection". What does that look like? Is it USB-A, which is the one that was everywhere until just recently? Is it USB-C, which is the current new hotness? 

Well, I would imagine USB-C because its current - but there are adapters to convert between the two.  I would actually argue for Bluetooth so there are no cables to go obsolete but apparently, in the case of my Kia and/or Apple, someone really berkeleyed that up.

Another analogy here might be the world of "Smart" TVs.  They include their own hardware/interface, but are usually so outdated after a couple years the "smart" part needs to be replaced with a Roku/Fire/Apple TV/etc.  I know I just had to setup a Roku at my mom's house because her 2015 or 16 Samsung TV is no longer compatible with Hulu.

preach (dudeist priest) said:

Infotainment Distracts 

• Touchscreens have become a common sight in new cars, with manufacturers saying these infotainment systems are safer than a cluttered mess of knobs and buttons.
• A group of automotive journalists in Sweden put these claims to the test by timing the infotainment functions of 11 brand-new models alongside a 2005 Volvo V70 with no screen.
• The results show a spread of efficiently designed menus and intelligent screen placement alongside slow and complex user interfaces and poorly angled displays.

BMW Says Screens Will Vanish 

Zipse says console-based screens are distracting; BMW teases head-up display tech

I cant read that BMW article.

One thing to note here is that a "Touchscreen" and a "Screen" are not necessarily the same thing.  A well designed one can be controlled without needing to touch the screen often, and without controls buried in distracting menus/etc.

In my Hyundai once I plugged in Android Auto most control could be done right from the steering wheel, so it was no more distracting than a standard radio.  EXCEPT there was NO PAUSE BUTTON WTF!!?!!? so you did need to touch the screen for that, and arguably most of the time when you want to use the pause button is when you are actively trying to minimize distractions so you can least afford to be using the screen.