The Standardized thread reminded me.....

Why don't cars use electric elements for the heat?

No heater core, hoses, or coolant in the driver's compartment. Near instant on heat from the time the car starts.

So what am I missing? Just huge current draw? Or?

The heat is already there, it's just a matter of putting it in a different place. Especially when you consider that you have to have the ducting and the fans no matter what. When you take apart a whole HVAC system in a car, the heater core is really the simplest and most robust part of the whole system.

Current draw.

z31maniac wrote: Why don't cars use electric elements for the heat? No heater core, hoses, or coolant in the driver's compartment. Near instant on heat from the time the car starts. So what am I missing? Just huge current draw? Or?

Huge current draw.

However, some cars ARE coming through with SMALL electric grids across the heater core, for faster heat.

Zomby Woof wrote: Current draw.

+1, electric heat would be a pretty big one at that.

Zomby Woof wrote: Current draw.

This.

Ask me how much better range the Volt has when it's 85º vs 45º.

jg

JG Pasterjak wrote:

Zomby Woof wrote: Current draw.

This. Ask me how much better range the Volt has when it's 85º vs 45º. jg

I'd rather ask Elon Musk.

But don't ask those guys from the New York Times, they don't know the answer

All that heat from the cooling system is free, you would be burning more fuel(and creating more heat) if you went electric.

he heat coming out of a car at full blast would take about 5000 watts of electricity to reproduce, or about 416 amps. Normal car alternator is 40-60amps

slopecarver wrote: he heat coming out of a car at full blast would take about 5000 watts of electricity to reproduce, or about 416 amps. Normal car alternator is 40-60amps

40 - 60 is now a wimpy alt. Most are pushing 100 amps

Heated seats + heated steering wheel = instant on heat for those who can afford it. It's easier to heat a person than to heat all of the air around a person.

slopecarver wrote: he heat coming out of a car at full blast would take about 5000 watts of electricity to reproduce, or about 416 amps. Normal car alternator is 40-60amps

5000 watts works out to 6.5 to 7 HP.

steronz wrote: Heated seats + heated steering wheel = instant on heat for those who can afford it. It's easier to heat a person than to heat all of the air around a person.

I don't care about heating ME. I'm a mammal, therefore I can internally regulate my heat.

I want to heat the windshield so it doesn't ice over.

I had to stop three times on the way in to work today because the rain was freezing as soon as it hit glass, before the wipers could touch it. The third time, I sat in a video store parking lot for a few minutes at 3000rpm until the car had sufficient heat that the windshield would stay clear.

Normally, it takes me 15 minutes to get to work, and I only have heat out of the vents for the last five or so. Instant heat is a GOOD THING. I normally just keep the glass clear by driving with the driver's window down and holding my breath at lights.

PS - When they gonna make a defroster for rearview mirrors? I mean the inside one.

PPS - I'm convinced that it doesn't get cold in Germany. VW heaters suck!

Knurled wrote: PPS - I'm convinced that it doesn't get cold in Germany. VW heaters suck!

The heater in my Audi works fine. OTOH, I live in California. :)

I've seen Range Rovers with electric grids in the front windshield for defrosting, but I gather most people don't like having them in their direct field of view.

A 500 amp alternator and 6 feet of quadruple-O gauge cable (or do you need bus bars at this kind of amperage?) to carry it is gonna cost a whole lot more than a heater core, so I think that answers the original question. :)

if you want heat, then get a rwd GM car built in the 70's and earlier and a GM truck built in 87 and earlier.. they will cook you out on a -30 degree morning after about 5 minutes of running...

Knurled wrote: PPS - I'm convinced that it doesn't get cold in Germany. VW heaters suck!

Must be the German design. MINI defroster sucks donkey balls, too. I can't keep the damn windows clear on a cold day.

novaderrik wrote: if you want heat, then get a rwd GM car built in the 70's and earlier and a GM truck built in 87 and earlier.. they will cook you out on a -30 degree morning after about 5 minutes of running...

Wife's '01 Camaro SS and my '90s S10s will, too.

We looked into using electric heat in our systems just to offer instant heat, and then have the coolant take over once heated. It draws too much current for anything less than 110V, even in a vehicle with an engine and alternator. We do use it in one of our military systems, but it runs off 110V in that system.

Knurled wrote: I want to heat the windshield so it doesn't ice over.

I don't know if they still use the same system but the first Ford Taurus had an electrically heated windshield - there was an ultrathin layer of metal embedded in the glass, rather than individual wires like a typical rear window. It gave the glass a gold tint.

For that matter, I've seen a few old VW bugs were people had put aftermarket electric window defroster elements on the windshield.

novaderrik wrote: if you want heat, then get a rwd GM car built in the 70's and earlier and a GM truck built in 87 and earlier.. they will cook you out on a -30 degree morning after about 5 minutes of running...

Most GMs had excessive HVAC systems well into the 90s. My dad had a 94 K1500 that featured a sticky thermostat, it would damn near melt the vents first run on a cold morning. Even after the t stat got into its grove, the heat was ridiculous. Ditto on the AC.

Aside from the two major points (coolant heat = "free" energy, amperage too high)... even if the car had a 110V system, with the losses through the alternator, the engine would need to make like 20hp @ idle just to be able to run the heater.

Now, if you made a small, effective heat exchanger and used exhaust heat... that would be much more instant than coolant.

I still don't understand why cars dont have a less-dense defroster grid across the front window.

ProDarwin wrote: Now, if you made a small, effective heat exchanger and used exhaust heat... that would be much more instant than coolant.

Yeah. Like those awesome heaters in a vw bug. LOL

I have never suffered an aircooled p car. Much the same I would assume?

My 89 750il has a defroster at the windshield wiper level. It works awesome imo

bravenrace wrote: We looked into using electric heat in our systems just to offer instant heat, and then have the coolant take over once heated. It draws too much current for anything less than 110V, even in a vehicle with an engine and alternator. We do use it in one of our military systems, but it runs off 110V in that system.

Such a thing already exists - it's called a block heater. Put it on a timer to come on an hour before you want to leave, and you'll have heat quickly.

JG Pasterjak wrote:

Zomby Woof wrote: Current draw.

This. Ask me how much better range the Volt has when it's 85º vs 45º. jg

Does the A/C have a significant impact on range as well?

In reply to Woody:

Probably, but then again, he was only talking 85 degrees.

When they first started putting heaters in cars, they were using 6 volt generators. They didn't have the option of using electric grids back then. The heater core has been in use for so long, it will likely never go away.