This is not good.... WTF EPA? -Page 11| Grassroots Motorsports forum |

novaderrik UltimaDork
2/13/16 12:47 p.m.

Keith Tanner wrote: I spent some time talking to the guys building the MX-5 Cup cars for Mazda. They're very worried. Their car is the poster child for this enforcement (literally in the case of some news articles) and they're a big fish. It's interesting, they're not thinking about Le Mons at all, they're talking about things like the Tudor series. The manufacturers are worried about losing a testing ground (he named off a number of current, new technologies coming online in various cars that have their roots in racing) and of course marketing. So the manufacturers are on our side on this, Mazda is working on it at least.

so those cars actually start life as production cars with manufacturer issued VINs and sold with titles so they can be licensed and driven on public streets?

SVreX MegaDork
2/13/16 1:14 p.m.

Tom Suddard wrote: IIRC, Alfa's Alfa has fuel injection and a cat on it. He's also an emissions engineer for Ford.

Wouldn't that make it illegal?

Sounds like a modification of the OEM system.

Keith Tanner MegaDork
2/13/16 2:30 p.m.

novaderrik wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote: I spent some time talking to the guys building the MX-5 Cup cars for Mazda. They're very worried. Their car is the poster child for this enforcement (literally in the case of some news articles) and they're a big fish. It's interesting, they're not thinking about Le Mons at all, they're talking about things like the Tudor series. The manufacturers are worried about losing a testing ground (he named off a number of current, new technologies coming online in various cars that have their roots in racing) and of course marketing. So the manufacturers are on our side on this, Mazda is working on it at least.
so those cars actually start life as production cars with manufacturer issued VINs and sold with titles so they can be licensed and driven on public streets?

They start as production cars, but the VINs are all flagged in the Mazda system, they have no COO and they cannot be registered. A COO is the precursor to a title. But they're still production cars, and they're one of the things the EPA is upset about. A title and a VIN are not the same thing.

We actually have a car in the same situation. It was damaged before it was sold, so Mazda cannot sell it for street use. But it was one truck ride and a COO away from being a normal Miata at the dealership.

Nick (LUCAS) Comstock UltimaDork
2/13/16 2:59 p.m.

SVreX wrote:
Tom Suddard wrote: IIRC, Alfa's Alfa has fuel injection and a cat on it. He's also an emissions engineer for Ford.
Wouldn't that make it illegal? Sounds like a modification of the OEM system.

It would be if it was new enough. But it's old enough to not have to worry about it.

Brett_Murphy PowerDork
2/13/16 8:28 p.m.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: I'm not opposed to clean air and water. And most people, given enough information, aren't either. What we're opposed to is being governed like a bunch of children who cant be trusted to make the right decisions, by people who really aren't any more intelligent than we are.

There are a ton of people that don't live in the smog testing area of my state that remove their cats because MOAR POWAH! or they want to shoot flames out of their exhausts. Many of them claim that the government has no right to tell them what to do with their property, and I've heard the argument that the EPA is un-Constitutional more than once. I run into them on local car forums or when out and about. I think they are willfully ignorant and selfish, by and large. The EPA throws rules like this out there because of people like that.

I agree that catering to the lowest common denominator is insulting. I'm not at all a fan of the regulations, as written, myself. I'm at a loss on how to solve this kind of problem locally, though. Even putting in OBDII testing for every vehicle in the state would just mean on that one day of the year they'd have to put their converter back on the car and make sure all of the readiness codes are set.

SVreX MegaDork
2/13/16 8:39 p.m.

I don't have the talent to make something go fast without a motor swap.

These regulations would make me either a) stop racing, or b) make sure all of my vehicles were old enough to have no emissions requirements.

That would leave me with the decision if I was going to voluntarily add emissions controls on a vehicle that did not require them. I lack the talent to do it well (proper sizing, balance, converting to OBDII, tuning, etc), and lack the money to pay someone to do it for me.

So, though it is not my desire to pollute, there is a possibility the vehicles I own would become bigger polluters by default. I doubt I am alone.