I came across an ad for a 1962 Ford Falcon Futura for Challenge money. First thing I looked up was the curb weight, which is 2500 lb. That's around what my MINI CooperS weighs and that's with an iron block and iron head making less than 90 HP. Rather than jump directly to using my all aluminum LS engine in it ,my mind goes to other light engines, as well as light drive train components. So, if one were to want roughly 200 HP in a light, or the lightest engine package, what would be your choice be? Is it realistic to think that you could get 200 horses and reduce the overall vehicle weight and still keep it a pleasant street car? I'm assuming the iron 144 cu.in. motor isn't particularly light by modern standards.
You have to make room for a straight 6 and figure out how to deal with managing all that dual valvetronic stuff, electric water pump (and valve cover and pan oil leaks), but 225-255 hp of BMW N52 uses a magnesium alloy block to come in at 330-350 lbs depending on what source material you are looking at.
So, maybe around 100 lbs less than an LS.
K series tied to a miata transmission with the K-Miata kit?
The K24Z3 will dyno out about 200HP with decent TQ numbers. The whole combo is pretty light since you don't need a heavy duty transmission.
But that is well out of challenge budget.
In challenge budget....Ecotec turbo drop out from solstice if you can find one.
In reply to bmw88rider (Forum Supporter) :
I'm not thinking about doing anything on a Challenge budget, but I am a GRMer, so cheap always enters the equation. I have my Challenge Miata from 2017 sitting here. It was supercharged and did a pretty easy 14.72 ET at about 2400# on the start line, so that got me thinking about how to stay light and be at a better power to weight ratio than the Miata or MINI, both of which are entertaining cars to drive. I could swap the entire suspension and drivetrain from the Miata to the Falcon and I'd be better than doubling its stock horsepower.
In reply to bmw88rider (Forum Supporter) :
I do like the 2.4 honda thought and it's almost the same displacement as the original Ford six, too.
The 1L ecoboost triple can probably be turned up to 200hp with a Fiesta ST turbocharger, and weighs 215lbs fully dressed.
red_stapler said:
The 1L ecoboost triple can probably be turned up to 200hp with a Fiesta ST turbocharger, and weighs 215lbs fully dressed.
Plus it's in the family if that is important.
Nothing terribly easy.
The 2.5 Duratec can get you there without excessive difficulty aside from making the oil pan clear things.
VW four cylinders are remarkably light, although getting 200hp from one probably would require a worked over 16v.
I'm not even going to bring up rotaries because they are wide in ways that the tiny cramped Ford engine bays would never tolerate.
I'd stay naturally aspirated. People who push turbos usually forget that intercoolers weigh stuff too and are not counted as part of the engine weight. And turbos mean high torque per horsepower, which might mean you need a heavier transmission.
Karacticus said:
You have to make room for a straight 6
99% of Falcons came with straight sixes...
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
I'd stay naturally aspirated. People who push turbos usually forget that intercoolers weigh stuff too and are not counted as part of the engine weight. And turbos mean high torque per horsepower, which might mean you need a heavier transmission.
Being a thought exercise, complexity isn't a big deal....
And while you *can* make more torque with a turbo, it's not actually a requirement. It's quite possilbe to have an n/a torque/power curve with a turbo- just have to tune the boost to match.
Being who I am, I would probably go with either the Ford family, or an Alfa- Alfa engines are really light, as is the trans- I know the trans can deal with a boosted 2.0l motor pretty easily. As can the very light weight rear end.
The most common engine, Ford wise, would be the 2.0l Duratec, and then boost it enough. So then use the NC trans to bolt to it. It would not take much boost of cooling to make 200hp from 2.0l.
If it *had* to be N/A, S2000 powertrain. You'd have to detune it to make just 200hp.
Atlas 3700. All aluminum, 240hp, inline, manual trans options(important to me, maybe not you, but definitely lighter than most autos).
Driven5
UltraDork
12/31/20 4:27 p.m.
200 at the flywheel or at the wheels? I've thought more than once about a Duratec Ranger as the donor for a mild Falcon drivetrain update. Getting near 200 at the flywheel should be doable without going crazy, and I'm guessing the shifter might match up better than the NC Miata transmission. Going for the 2.5L would probably take more cost and/or effort to get running, but would require significantly less mods to hit the power goal.
I just don't know if I could get past losing out on the sounds of an I6 though.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
1. Early 60s two door falcon is on my list to own one day.
2. I'll be the broken record of 2.0T ecotec from a Saab 9-3 with Chevy wire harness and ecu. Stock is 210hp.
I'd be looking hard at some inline 6. BMW is the obvious source there, but they aren't exactly cheap.
There are zillions of GM V6s out there that make 200hp. Blasphemy to put a GM in a Ford, but I've done worse.
Does the stock hood have to close? Many of the suggestions here are tall, which the Ford six is not. The V6s are also too wide for convenience in the Falcon. The Alfa idea has great merit. It is short enough in both axis and very light.
I know. Easy button.
Small block ford from an explorer, with aod. Should all but fall in place I'd think. If I remember correctly, these had an option for the 289?
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
I wouldn't shy away from a turbo, but you're right about people overlooking the extras that add weight.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :
Falcons can accomodate a SBF because it's relatively narrow.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :
I think the early ones were a 260? V8 don't know if that is a similar package size to the 289 or not.
In reply to gumby (Forum Supporter) :
My son mentioned the Atlas and that's because he follows what the Nelsons have done with theirs.
In reply to Somebeach (Forum Supporter) :
The 221/260/289 were all the same dimensions as far as I know.
Pull an Isuzu V6 with transmission from an Amigo/Passport/Rodeo/Trooper, complete with 5-speed if you can find one. The 24V is 215hp, and it is a Honda built engine. (yes, I've been on this soap box before
)
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
And the 302.
But it's a VERY tight fit!
And this is all shying away from "light 200hp". The 8.2 deck engine is very light for what it is but it's not a light way to get 200hp.
I'd have to know what the original six weighs to actually do anything. The whole point of this would be to reduce the weight, otherwise it would be a typical V8 swap hot rod. I've always owned small cars and the thought of a 200 +HP car that weighs little more than a Miata is kind of appealing. Popping the hood at a cars and coffee meet and NOT having a V8 would be fun to stand back and eavesdrop on.
