Today's IRL race

I didn't see it, but sounds like there was some fireworks: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/racing/07/25/edmonton.indy.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

And guess today's F1 race was just as wacky: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/racing/07/25/german.gp.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

Watched the F1 race even though I knew the results and read of the controversy. My reaction - How can F1 pose itself as the pinnacle of motorsport when it has unenforceable rules, i.e., "No Team Orders"? Is the FIA going to have access to driver contracts and representatives in every factory meeting or motorhome conversation to effectively enforce that stupid rule?

Ferrari gets fined $100,000, but they spend more than that to load the transporters. At least they got an invitation to visit the WMSC, where (hopefully) they get their WCC points stripped for at least the German GP.

Watched part of the IRL race, but missed the last quarter of the race - yeah, it was that exciting. Read/watched some race reports (including video of HCN's transgressions). Reaction - How can the IRL be taken seriously when it has a moron (who has never raced) as Race Director?

HCN goes ballistic and man-handles an IRL official (who looks the size of a NFL linebacker) and will likely get fined. The only appropriate justice would be for the IRL to demand that the Race Director (Brian Barnhart) pay up for Helio.

Oh, the Moto GP from Laguna Seca was a bit of a snoozer, but damn, did Pedrosa get an awesome start, or what? And, major kudos for the Doctor showing that it still takes guts to display skills.

Rob Smedley and Felipe Massa acted like clowns this weekend. It was unprofessional, and child-like. Massa knows how the game is played, he was second fiddle to Michael for quite some time, and it did not seem to bother him then.

Smedley's "appology" to Massa was uncalled for. It left the team in a position that they could not back away from. Formula 1 is a team sport, and should be treated as such. Fernando was clearly quicker, and Vettel was gaining. Why lose a 1-2 because the driver in front won't cede the position? Buck up.

Massa's childlike behaviour in the post race interviews was demonstrative of his character. He is a poor sport that does not deserve to have his contract renewed. Ferrari's best interest are not even considered in Massa's mind.

The ridiculousness of "team orders" being banned is just that, however, there are ways of avoiding this. If Smedley had simply stated that Massa needed to save fuel, or slightly limited the revs, nobody would have been the wiser, and team orders would have played out exactly like they always do... Ban the stupid rule, and be done with it.

Why doesn't Paul Tracy have a full time ride? Still damn fast, speaks his mind and is one of the few exciting to watch in a field of stiffs and over rated swimsuit models.

Stand back, y'all...rant mode ON.

I love the Indycars. Have done so since I was a child. I remember wishing I could see the few road races USAC sanctioned for them in the 1960s, I remember my delight at seeing CART schedule road races in the early 1980s (although I know now that it was kinda an "accident"..USAC tried to lock out CART, and the road courses were the only places that would let CART run), and I remember my smug predictions in 1994 or so that the Indycars, with the amazing combination of Road Courses, Street Courses, and both short and long Ovals (including the still-USAC sanctioned Indy 500, then the most prestigious race in the US) would soon overtake NASCAR in popularity with the "public".

And then Tony George (spit) came along, and the whole thing came crashing down. The berkeleyer might have gotten away with it, except for the fact that his new series actually put those stupid toy cars in place of the monsters that had roamed the continent.

Lesson One for anyone who is involved with managing a professional racing series:

Replacing fast cars with slow ones is the "Highway to Hell", when it comes to fan appeal. And if you don't appeal to the fans, you won't appeal to the public at large. Every non-racer friend I have asks me about racing...if I don't like your series, I tell twenty (at the least) people that your E36 M3 ain't worth bothering about, and dang sure ain't worth spending their $150 to buy a ticket to watch in person, or wasting 2-4hrs to watch on TV.

That's the reason the Indy 500 has lost its shine in the last 15yrs, it's the reason NASCAR failed with the first edition of the "Car of Tomorrow", and it's the reason 100,000 people would rather attend an ALMS race (even when there's only two cars with a chance of winning) than a Grand-Am "Daytona Prototype" race. Personally, I enjoy watching the DPs. The racing's much closer, and there's some very talented people driving the damn things...but the fact remains...those cars are slower than the ones running ALMS. That fact alone makes DP a "minor league series", IMO.

Lesson Two:

Okay, we've already seen that American open-wheeled racing had suffered a major loss of prestige and respect over the time CART and the IRL were at war. As a CART fan (faster cars, remember?), I accept that we lost, and "The Earl" won. "Phony" George was right. The National Championship didn't survive as a business without the Indy 500. Damn shame that it took a decade for it to happen. I'm sure that wasn't in TG's original plan at all.

So, here we are, the few folks left that care about American open-wheelers. The civil war is over, we ended up with "our" (I was a CART guy, remember? ) tracks (plus, finally! the Indy 500 again!) with "their" stupid cars, and we're all trying to let "bygones be bygones", and just try to regain some ground with the non-racing public, so that the series can sell enough tix and find a TV package that will allow it to survive.

And then this moron in the tower decides that the tail should wag the dog. On a circuit that must be a thousand feet wide, he gives a "blockIng" penalty to the only driver that the "casual fans" who might have been tempted to watch the series have ever heard of (Helio was on that incipid "Dancing With the Stars" program).

Lesson Three:

When you're trying to "rebuild" your reputation, don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Apologies for the length of the post, guys...I didn't mean to rant for so long. But as I said, I love the Indycars, and I'm still hoping they'll get their E36 M3 straight one day...

I'm thinking of trading my "Tony George Burns in Hell" pin for one saying something similar about Brian Barnhart.

Oh, yah..almost forgot..here's a lil taste of the real Indycars...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwatCpILYP0

And another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtiGra-pj5c

FGC- you forgot to mention:

lesson four:

Have announcers(for TV) who actually know how to announce what's happening on track and speak American English. And get rid of the ridiculous fluff pieces.

Platinum90 wrote: Rob Smedley and Felipe Massa acted like clowns this weekend. It was unprofessional, and child-like. Massa knows how the game is played, he was second fiddle to Michael for quite some time, and it did not seem to bother him then. Smedley's "appology" to Massa was uncalled for. It left the team in a position that they could not back away from. Formula 1 is a team sport, and should be treated as such. Fernando was clearly quicker, and Vettel was gaining. Why lose a 1-2 because the driver in front won't cede the position? Buck up. Massa's childlike behaviour in the post race interviews was demonstrative of his character. He is a poor sport that does not deserve to have his contract renewed. Ferrari's best interest are not even considered in Massa's mind. The ridiculousness of "team orders" being banned is just that, however, there are ways of avoiding this. If Smedley had simply stated that Massa needed to save fuel, or slightly limited the revs, nobody would have been the wiser, and team orders would have played out exactly like they always do... Ban the stupid rule, and be done with it.

If Fernando was THAT much faster than Filipe, then why doesn't he make a pass, like they do with the rest of the teams? Kinda lame that you get a glorified time trial point by for a pass for the lead. No other team has a problem with the team racing (well, Red Bull can't seem to get it right), so why can't Ferrari?

I understand the idea of team orders, but it's not as if either driver is that much in contention for the WC. And with Alonoso's recent whining over trival things recently (well, longer than recently)- Ferrari didn't need to make themselves look that much worse. Somehow they did, though.

So what you are saying is that Masa's great start was pointless, outside of getting by Vettel. No reward for having a great start? While I'm no fan of either driver, Alonso should have actually made the pass instead of demanding a point by. As you so elegantly put it- Buck up- learn to RACE. That's what they do out there.

I think Alonso was acting like a clown and was unprofessional and child like. Especially unprofessional- you are a racer, not merely a driver. Race. You should be more than skilled enough to make the pass and not harm either car. If not, then you are not going that much faster.

And it wasn't a very exiciting race- I was able to fast forward through it in less than an hour, even with re-watching the "Alonso is faster, please confirm" a few times, and the pass a few times.

All the excitement was from Ferrari making a mockery of this as a sport.

Eric

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

Don't forget to hire your new CEO from the Professional Bull Rider's tour and have him propose two separate championships so your glorified swimsuit model has a chance at winning something.

Asshats.

minimac wrote: FGC- you forgot to mention: lesson four: Have announcers(for TV) who actually know how to announce what's happening on track and speak American English. And get rid of the ridiculous fluff pieces.

+1,000,000!! Ive heard cats in heat provide better commentary for an Indycar race than the Indycar commentators!

Remember the Spanish Peacocks one year with McLaren? McLaren does not have team orders and never has. He thought that he should have been the #1 driver because Hamilton was a rookie. Alonso complained every race and then left. Massa has every reason to be upset. He has proven for years that he is good enough to be treated as an equal. All Alonso has proven is that he truly is a Spanish Peacock.

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

The Trans-Am cars were some 8 seconds quicker than NASCAR at Watkins Glen on the same weekend. Didn't seem to help Trans-Am much being the quicker class.

From what I've noticed, the 'casual' fans care about 1/4 much about the cars as they do the drivers.

alfadriver said: If Fernando was THAT much faster than Filipe, then why doesn't he make a pass, like they do with the rest of the teams? Kinda lame that you get a glorified time trial point by for a pass for the lead. No other team has a problem with the team racing (well, Red Bull can't seem to get it right), so why can't Ferrari?

It isn't Fernando that makes the call. it is the TEAM, the higher-ups, management, Montezemolo. I am sure Fernando would have had no problem passing Felipe, and he was right there on his tail at the hairpin, he probably could have executed the move at the end of the straight.

Kia_Racer said: Remember the Spanish Peacocks one year with McLaren? McLaren does not have team orders and never has. He thought that he should have been the #1 driver because Hamilton was a rookie. Alonso complained every race and then left. Massa has every reason to be upset. He has proven for years that he is good enough to be treated as an equal. All Alonso has proven is that he truly is a Spanish Peacock.

Alonso did not "leave". And why the hell didn't he deserve better treatment? He had just won two world championships, and he was at a team with a rookie. The rookie was obviously receiving a lions share of the press, publicity, and team attention. I would have been mad also. Especially with Ron Dennis. The complaining only started occurring after Hamilton decided to go against gentlemen agreements with Fernando.

I still contend that if McLaren had given Fernando the support he deserved, he would have won the championship handily in 2007, and again in 2008. 2009 was a possibility, but McLaren didn't really have the car for it. And he would be leading the championship now!

Dennis screwed over a cash cow and an excellent driver so that his "protege" could make rookie mistakes and throw away championships.

One more thing before I finish. Do you really think Hamilton in 2007/2008 or Massa 2010 would have the same beneficial development that ALLOWED them to be quick had 'Nando not been in the team?

It is proven time and time again, Fernando brings AT LEAST 3 tenths of a second to every team he has entered.

Rant Over.

Platinum90 wrote:

alfadriver said: If Fernando was THAT much faster than Filipe, then why doesn't he make a pass, like they do with the rest of the teams? Kinda lame that you get a glorified time trial point by for a pass for the lead. No other team has a problem with the team racing (well, Red Bull can't seem to get it right), so why can't Ferrari?

It isn't Fernando that makes the call. it is the TEAM, the higher-ups, management, Montezemolo. I am sure Fernando would have had no problem passing Felipe, and he was right there on his tail at the hairpin, he probably could have executed the move at the end of the straight.

six of one, half dozen of another WRT who made the call. But Montezemolo didn't call anything rediculous before backing off by 2 seconds. Interesting that they were going close to the same pace when Masa was told that Alonso was clearly faster....

Again, if you are so sure, then the call never needed to be made. Making the call makes a mockery of this as a sport. F1 should not be about a time trial where the "team" gets to decide who wins or loses, but skill and guts do.

F1 is bad enough that the racing is so tough to do, but oddly enough, both McLaren and Red Bull make their drivers race as opposed to just drive. Ferrari should, too.

Eric

alfadriver said: Again, if you are so sure, then the call never needed to be made.

Normally, I would agree with you, but red mist is worst between teammates. If you owned the team, supplying multi-million dollar cars to twenty-somethings with reputations to uphold and things to prove, would YOU want them going wheel to wheel? We have already seen it go wrong at Red Bull. The team's job is to win, not to fight amongst themselves.

Interestingly, the teams that win the most championships, HAVE team orders (IE Ferrari in the Schumacher/Brawn era.)

BTW, Fernando gained three seconds on Felipe in just 4 laps. he was CLEARLY faster. He set four fastest laps on the trot, and was getting even quicker. He was in the sweet spot of his tires, and gained alot of position in a short time. (if you hadn't "Fast Forwarded through most of the race" you would know that)

I watched all three races. The F1 race was a boring parade except for the "pass". The IRL was little better except for the last couple of laps. Now I know why I would rather watch NASCAR racing. There is racing going on all over the track and even the superstars sometimes fail. Juan needs to practice his traffic driving . When six or seven guys can sevice a car in 13 secs while still having lug nuts. What do all of those guys do in an F1 pit stop ?

And people complained that the Dale Jr. win was fixed...

Platinum90 wrote:

alfadriver said: Again, if you are so sure, then the call never needed to be made.

Normally, I would agree with you, but red mist is worst between teammates. If you owned the team, supplying multi-million dollar cars to twenty-somethings with reputations to uphold and things to prove, would YOU want them going wheel to wheel? We have already seen it go wrong at Red Bull. The team's job is to win, not to fight amongst themselves.

As a person who is partially paying for the multi-million dollar cars via tickets and advertising, I don't care what the team owners think- I'm paying to watch a race, not a time trial. Real people buy the products that are seen on those cars, real people pay the tickets to see the races live, real people pay the cable fees to see the races on TV. Real people fund all of those teams- just not directly.

I want to see a race, plane and simple. If the team owners can't deal with that, then perhaps they should not be racing.

I honestly don't care which TEAM wins the constructors championship, but I understand that they do. That day, I care who wins the RACE, and that year, I care first who wins the championship, and barely care what team wins.

It's the drivers job to win a proper RACE, not a time trial. Race. If Fernado can't properly pass his teammate safely, then he does not deserve to win the race, flat out. If the first corner means that much, then maybe he should have done a better job when the lights go out.

I'd even be ok if Fernando passed him via pitting- much like Jensen Button did to Weber. That was a strategic drive where he gapped far enough to gain a position. If he did that on Hamilton (and he came close)- that's cool, even though I'm a Hamilton fan- he would have earned the position by driving.

Alonso had his chances, didn't make them stick, and didn't EARN winning that race. He was given it. Weak.

I seem to remember an article about Fangio wrecking one time, then commandeer a team-mates car and win.

I don't understand the HCN blocking penalty. He was leading, why should he let anyone pass? Like alfadriver said, these aren't "time trials". Now, if you're laps behind and being passed, you give way, but not when you're the leader. I mean no need to be dangerous, but blocking is a perfectly fine strategy.

I think it depends on the situation really. Alonso was clearly quicker as he ran him down but stalled out behind him. He could have made an attempt but at what potential cost to the team? Look at Red Bull a few races ago. I agree with Ferrari that if Alonso was clearly faster, which he was, then make the move to let him by. It's much better than having a failed passing attempt and both cars being taken out. Had Massa been able to pull away, this never would have happened. You have to know your cars and drivers and make the call.

Personally, I think Red Bull should have done the same thing. If I was the guy that had to pull over, I'd have to get over it. You're paid big bucks to produce for the TEAM. They don't really pay you for personal gain, although you may achieve that.