In reply to Nate90LX :Balance and alignment determine if a trailer is likely to sway or not. The wheelbase of the toe vehicle only determines how maneuverable the truck will be A weight distribution hitch will help an undersized tow vehicle carry a too heavy load.
Semi trucks are very short in relation to the trailer.
Oops, trailer tires and proper tire pressure
Can also affect sway.
Semi trucks are 5th wheel, which has significantly different dynamics from bumper pull towing.
Matt said:no manual trans F250 or F350's at our gov surplus sale site, but if you feel like heading North...and those are CDN dollars, so 30% cheaper for US$
Keep in mind that this site is like a "sealed bid". You put in your bid and hope for the best. I have seen many vehicles on that site go for 2-3 times the minimum bid. The upside is that most a gov't vehicles that are well maintained. Some are seizures, so watch for those. Many are fairly low mileage.
I don't bother looking any more.
Nate90LX said:What about the Nissan Titan? They all have the 5.6L with a decent trans (although automatic only). Plus they are cheaper than any other 1/2 tons with similar miles and a V8.
My buddy scored a Titan off of Letgo for $6000. 4wd, crew cab. Nice truck, but it had a cracked manifold which is apparently common. I helped him put aftermarket headers on it and it's good to go. Most of my forearm skin even grew back after that job.
codrus said:Semi trucks are 5th wheel, which has significantly different dynamics from bumper pull towing.
There are plenty of 5th wheel pickup’s too. Yes it’s a bit different from a pull trailer but still if it’s misaligned or tail heavy will cause problems.
frenchyd said:In reply to Nate90LX :Balance and alignment determine if a trailer is likely to sway or not. The wheelbase of the toe vehicle only determines how maneuverable the truck will be A weight distribution hitch will help an undersized tow vehicle carry a too heavy load.
Semi trucks are very short in relation to the trailer.
Oops, trailer tires and proper tire pressure
Can also affect sway.
Politely disagree. It is pretty straightforward physics. The tongue of the trailer is a lever that is pulling side to side. The same function that makes a short wheelbase so maneuverable is what makes the trailer able to affect it greater. Long lever acting on a short lever. The longer you make the tow vehicle, the less effect the trailer has on swaying the vehicle.
5th wheels and big trucks mount the pin over the axle. There is no lever, so there is zero mechanical advantage. The trailer can still pull side to side on the hitch, but it doesn't have the mechanical advantage of the 3' of lever found on a bumper tow. Big trucks also have 8 massive stiff tires directly under the hitch pin. The trailers also have incredible proportions of front weight since the trailer tires are nearly at the back of the trailer.
So for towing 5,000 lbs it sounds like anything with a 5,000 lbs tow rating will do it safely. A bigger vehicle may be more comfortable and be more stable (make the driver feel more confident at speed?).
Doesn’t a weight distribution hitch turn the whole connection to the vehicle and trailer into a big leaf spring for both turning and buckling? Will it make the whole system more stable, and reduce the effect of the bumper to axle lever arm?
On the topic of manual trans, it appears to be personal preference. And most people seem to prefer automatic, which is why basically nobody makes a new truck with a manual and large tow capacity anymore.
It sounds like I also need to focus on the alignment, design and weight distribution of the trailer. Is there any fundamental design difference to look for or avoid in an open trailer to make it tow worse/better.
Disclaimer - I haven't read this whole thread, here's my .02.
I've done here, there, and everywhere in between. Newer vehicle, nearly maxed on tow capacity is better IMO (within reason). Older/Old trucks drive like old trucks (Even something as "new" as 200x). I have a 2000 Excursion v10 and when I can get away with it (i.e. tow dolly) my 2017 CX-5 has stability to spare, just a bit light on the engine side. I just did a run to Barber with my CX-5, and besides being a bit slow on the hills it was the most relaxing tow you could imagine (obviously a very light tow). Now if you're talking later 20xx trucks you might be better off, but newer cars stability/traction control/etc are ... well, better. Obviously there's a ton of variables, and I'm not talking using using a honda civic to tow 10k. Tongue weight is pretty important when towing with non-truck type things as well since they usually will have IRS.
Doesn’t a weight distribution hitch turn the whole connection to the vehicle and trailer into a big leaf spring for both turning and buckling?
A weight distributing hitch basically tries to rotate the tow vehicle downward/forward. In the process it transfers some of the tongue weight off the rear suspension and onto the front suspension of the tow vehicle. This is especially helpful in vehicles that don't have super stiff rear suspensions and have shorter wheelbases. So, a typical SUV could go from scary to confident while someone driving a super long f250 (less angle change) with a heavy front end (less likely to bounce/feel light) and a stiff rear suspension (wouldnt sag down as much from tongue weight) might not feel like it was worth the $1000 investment.
Nate90LX said:So for towing 5,000 lbs it sounds like anything with a 5,000 lbs tow rating will do it safely. A bigger vehicle may be more comfortable and be more stable (make the driver feel more confident at speed?).
Doesn’t a weight distribution hitch turn the whole connection to the vehicle and trailer into a big leaf spring for both turning and buckling? Will it make the whole system more stable, and reduce the effect of the bumper to axle lever arm?
On the topic of manual trans, it appears to be personal preference. And most people seem to prefer automatic, which is why basically nobody makes a new truck with a manual and large tow capacity anymore.
It sounds like I also need to focus on the alignment, design and weight distribution of the trailer. Is there any fundamental design difference to look for or avoid in an open trailer to make it tow worse/better.
Try not to overthink it. Buy a new trailer and a truck/SUV with the size and grunt to do more than you need. Maintain them. How often do you plan on towing?
In reply to yupididit :
I’m probably only going to tow 10-12 times per year at a max distance of 250 miles. Although I would like something that could make it to Nebraska (500 miles) if I ever wanted to.
In reply to Nate90LX :
I'm not sure how far away you are other than being in NW Ohio but you can borrow the Gov't Mule if needed. Its running gear is in tip-top shape. For comfort, it has no AC (missing compressor) and came from the factory with no cruise control.
I hopped in the F250 today in anticipation that if I won that Dodge Dakota at auction, I would go get it today with the truck. Sure enough, at 8am-ish and 12 degrees outside the F250 didn't want to start. Dead-ish battery. It suffers most from just not being driven enough. It drained down over our sub-zero spell last month too but the battery charger brought it back up. I drove my daughter to school in the Prius instead. Here at 1:00 the charger has already topped off the battery. I'll drive it for a little while later today.
In other news...that Dakota went for $2,375 all in (auction fees and all.) I had it bid up to just under $2,100 but resisted the urge to take the bidding any higher. Oh well, there will be another 500 cars next week.
In reply to John Welsh :
If you don't drive the thing often, I've found that a solar battery charger is super effective at keeping the battery topped off. It won't charge a dead battery but it'll keep a charged one full. You can velcro it to the dash and leave it hooked up 24/7 and you never need to think about it again. That assumes your power jack is unswitched. If it's switched with the ignition you'll need to figure out another way to connect it.
In reply to dculberson :
Yeah. I need one. Or, a couple. This has been a harsh winter on the fleet.
Do you have a link to a recommendation
In reply to John Welsh :
I really like the harbor freight ones. A thin bead of silicone will even make it fairly rain proof. It comes with a connector end, so you can go cigarette lighter or gator clips to the battery.
accordionfolder said:Newer vehicle, nearly maxed on tow capacity is better IMO (within reason). Older/Old trucks drive like old trucks (Even something as "new" as 200x).
Random towing anecdote:
A few months ago I was driving up to Thunderhill, and had occasion to follow behind two of my friends. They were pulling essentially identical trailers (enclosed aluminum ATCs with BMWs in them -- figure around 7K pounds). One of them was towing with a big diesel Mercedes Benz (GL or GLS or something -- had a 7500 pound tow rating) and had a weight distributing hitch, It was a little windy and I got to watch the trailer behind the Benz as it would jump a foot to the left, a foot to the right for miles, even with the weight-distributing hitch.
The other guy had a Chevy 2500 HD like mine (LBZ diesel, crew cab) and a basic draw bar & hitch. His trailer just followed along, no drama at all. A 2007 model year, but it's hte last of the GMT800s and the chassis was essentially the same since 1999.
In reply to codrus :
I'm not a fan of weight distributing hitches - some people swear by them, but all the major towing rental companies don't allow you to use them with their trailers, etc. To me that sounds like bad weight distribution in trailer and possibly the setup more than the towing vehicles fault (assuming it was within the weight limit). Setup is a big part of towing drama free, and most people seem to shy away from tongue weight which never works out well.
A weight distributing hitch is awesome. MUCH more stable towing. The problem is they are routinely misused.
The purpose of a weight distributing hitch is to distribute the weight. NOT to increase the towing capacity.
The towing capacity of a vehicle does NOT change by adding a weight distributing hitch. It just tows the same weight with better stability.
In reply to codrus :
Also...
The weight distributing hitch does not help with sway. That would be an anti-sway bar.
The situation you described was most likely a poorly loaded trailer. He had the weight too far back.
No, the trailer was loaded with the proper percentage on the tongue, and was within the weight limit for the tow vehicle. There was some kind of anti-sway thing built into the hitch as well, but I don't know details.
Some weight distribution hitches do help with sway. The first style shown below is a Reese-style distro. It offers next to no sway control, but does provide a wee bit. As the trailer sways, the chains go on an angle and lift the bars, but to say that they really make a difference with sway would be an exaggeration. This style is also the easiest to damage if you don't set proper preload. If you overload the bars, the round part up in the hitch head galls and gets damaged.
The next style is a Trunnion style. The main difference is that it is a little more forgiving of overloading the bars.
Either one of these can be supplemented with one of several sway control devices. The easiest is a sliding friction system. The front of this mounts to a wee little hitch ball on the head and the other mounts to another wee hitch ball on the tongue. Then you tighten down the handle and it applies a brake pad to the slide.
The Bee's Knees in my opinion is a cam-style distro that incorporates anti sway into the torsion bars themselves. The trailing end of the torsion bar has a bend in it. That bend sits on a cam that tensions the torsion bar. In order for the trailer to sway, it has to overcome the friction on the cam as well as lift the bar. Pretty effective.
Having said all of that... Try it first without anything. Depending on what vehicle you get, you may not need it. I find that with a flatbed with a car, I like the weight distro, but don't need sway control. With a travel trailer (a 12' high wind sail), I like the sway control. If I were doing 5000 worth of flatbed behind my B4000 I think I would want some light torsion, but likely not need sway, but I have towed 10k with a crew cab dually and used neither.
You can also get bars with different spring rates depending on how much weight you need to shift. For you, I might suggest the lighter bars if you need them.
accordionfolder said:In reply to codrus :
I'm not a fan of weight distributing hitches - some people swear by them, but all the major towing rental companies don't allow you to use them with their trailers, etc. To me that sounds like bad weight distribution in trailer and possibly the setup more than the towing vehicles fault (assuming it was within the weight limit). Setup is a big part of towing drama free, and most people seem to shy away from tongue weight which never works out well.
I can understand your logic, but sometimes they are just needed. If you have a truck rated to tow 5000 (or rather I should say that is actually capable of towing 5000) it may have a wildly different setup from another truck that can tow 5000. So a properly set up trailer that weighs 5000 and has 600 lbs on the tongue might make one truck squat an inch or two, and it might put the other one on the bumpstops.
The other thing to remember is that every vehicle has different lengths from the axle to the hitch, as well as different weight distributions. A crew cab long bed with a diesel? You can put 1000 lbs on a tongue and not worry about taking too much weight off the front. A mid-size SUV with a long tail and an aluminum V6? You might put 500 lbs of tongue on the hitch and you could take enough weight off the front axle that it takes away significant grip for emergency steering maneuvers.
Not everyone tows with the same vehicle, and given the wide variation in wieght distribution compared to tow capacity means that you sometimes just need them. All receiver hitches are also rated for two different capacities; one with distro and one without. In order to tow the full capacity of the hitch you must use distribution.
In reply to Curtis :
Good info, but do keep in mind most smaller towing vehicle's hitches (i.e. non-truck-type-things) explicitly tell you not to use weight distributing - just to complicate things a bit more. :)
accordionfolder said:In reply to Curtis :
Good info, but do keep in mind most smaller towing vehicle's hitches (i.e. non-truck-type-things) explicitly tell you not to use weight distributing - just to complicate things a bit more. :)
Good point. A lot of the later unibody vehicles mount the hitch to sheet metal and they can't take the forces that torsion bars put on them.
Ironically, my 94 Mazda B4000 has a class 5 hitch on it capable of towing 15,000. Why would anyone make a 15k hitch for a compact truck? 
Harbor Freight solar 1.5w charger has been acquired. Actually, two.
https://www.harborfreight.com/15-watt-solar-battery-charger-62449.html
$13.99 after GRM 20% coupon = $11.19 I also got a free set of Small 4pk Micro Fiber Cloth a $2.69 value. We'll call it $10 for the charger. Seemed like a good deal. My cashier was "particular" about allowing 20% off 2 chargers so I actually returned again today to buy the second one (I'm cheap like that!) I guess that's a big benefit of now having a new HF less than 3 miles from my house and on my everyday travel route.
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