Two problems with the Civic

So need help with two problems on the 93 Civic. First it is hard to start when it is low on gas but if I flick the key from on (so that the fuel pump kicks on) to off and back on again a few times it starts fine. I want to say that it needs a fuel pump but I wanted to check and see what anyone else thought.

Two the car smells super rich after starting it and driving until it gets up to temperature. This has started recently. There is no check engine light but it smells so rich it makes my head hurt. Anyone have any ideas on this problem. I thought maybe exhaust leak but that seems like it would be a constant problem.

On problem #2, you most likely have a fuel injector leak. The o-rings rot out. Turn the ignition on so the pump is on, but don't start it, and go look under the hood. You'll get a strong fuel smell and should see puddling in the intake manifold right below the injectors.

O-ring kits are cheap, but I always recommend having the injectors cleaned and serviced while they are out. Depending on how bad your leak is, this could be problem #1 as well.

In reply to Javelin:

I will take a look at the o-rings but how long does it typically take to get injectors cleaned and serviced?

In reply to 93EXCivic:

My local NAPA does them in about 20 minutes while you wait. Call around to your local stores. Most should do a same-day drop off/pick-up. They'll even supply all new o-rings. Grease those babies before reinstalling so they won't tear!

93EXCivic wrote: So need help with two problems on the 93 Civic. First it is hard to start when it is low on gas but if I flick the key from on (so that the fuel pump kicks on) to off and back on again a few times it starts fine. I want to say that it needs a fuel pump but I wanted to check and see what anyone else thought.

I seem to remember there is relay for the fuel pump in EG civics that can fail as well.

Type Q wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: So need help with two problems on the 93 Civic. First it is hard to start when it is low on gas but if I flick the key from on (so that the fuel pump kicks on) to off and back on again a few times it starts fine. I want to say that it needs a fuel pump but I wanted to check and see what anyone else thought.

I seem to remember there is relay for the fuel pump in EG civics that can fail as well.

But wouldn't the relay be a problem all the time not just when it is low on fuel?

Possible check valve in the fuel pump (if it has one). Fuel is more likely to drain back out of the fuel lines if the tank is low/empty.

it it's like the relay on the CRX, then no... not necessarily ... thought the CRX's problem wasn't related to the amt. of fuel ..

the solder joints crack ( and not so you could see the cracks) pulled mine and took it to work and inspected under our solder station microscope ( only 30 power ... but enough to inspect the work we were doing ) couldn't see any cracks ....

fluxed and reflowed the solder on all the connections and replaced ... no problems starting since then ( 3 yrs ago) ... it's a common problem for that era

In reply to wbjones:

I was looking at the relay problem. That seems to be a hot start problem. The hard to start problem is only after the car has been sitting for a while. I will see what I can find out about Cone_Junky's idea.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

My relay problem wasn't fazed by hot or cold starts or fuel level; it was so random it couldn't be diagnosed until it completely failed.

The car was driven a dozen times in two days and the problem never replicated itself. I picked it up, drove for mile, stopped at a store and it wouldn't start ten minutes later.

One new relay later and the issue has never re-occurred. YMMV...........

In reply to oldsaw:

I may go ahead a buy a relay as insurance. I doubt they expensive but I really don't think that is the problem here cause it isn't randomly when the car has cooled down and low on fuel.

doubt you have the Main relay problem with the problems you describe, but it is not so cheap insurance to have one in the Glove box for the day it does happen. I bought one for my EF at Oreilly's and they run close to $50 so it is a little spendy just to keep on hand.

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to wbjones: I was looking at the relay problem. That seems to be a hot start problem. The hard to start problem is only after the car has been sitting for a while. I will see what I can find out about Cone_Junky's idea.

in my case it was so intermittent you couldn't point at any particular thing .. .hot, cold, full of fuel, low on fuel .... other times it would start every time you turned the key ...

Soooo....

My 89 SI has the "running rich" symptom described above. The injectors have never been touched. (282k)

Based on this thread, it seems like a full set of O-rings and seals is a low risk investment.....(Yes?)

Parts are about $30 from Rockauto.

What say the GRM gurus?

Rog

Easy job, but anywhere with a fuel injector cleaning machine will be able to clean them for about the same price and they usually throw the o-rings and seals in. If you only do the seals without cleaning them you may be missing the real issue, especially if it's a stuck injector. My local NAPA also had the parts for as cheap as Rockauto, FYI.

Dirty injectors:

check the fuel pressure regulator as well. had a car that was hard to start due to a flaky regulator. a fuel filter and fuel line check isnt a bad idea on older cars.

Extended crank when low of fuel is pretty common on older Hondas. Only when the car has been sitting for a while too. I'm guessing the check valve doesn't do it's job when the fuel level is low and the fuel in the lines and rail all drain back into the tank. I've just learned to keep it above 1/4 tank or let the fuel pump prime fully before cranking. Doesn't sound like a bad PGMFI relay.

About problem #2, any change in fuel economy?

Ok so the oil stinks of gas too. I checked for the puddle of gas under the injectors and there is nothing.

Might be a wild goose chase, but I seem to remember a bulletin about some Acuras having the same problem. Solution was an updated fuel pressure regulator. Anyone know where to find Honda service bulletins?

93EXCivic wrote: Ok so the oil stinks of gas too.

That along with the rich smell sounds like an injector is leaking, not sealing off. That would also account for the hard start since the fuel in the line would have leaked out.

This thread just reminds me that I need to get my injectors serviced.

So you guys with Civics, I'm not sure how much the injector servicing costs, but these aren't terribly expensive and offer a much nicer spray pattern than the OEM injectors. If I had one of these cars still, I'd be updating it from the pee-stream design of the originals

http://www.ebay.com/itm/88-91-Honda-CRX-HF-D15B6-Fuel-Injectors-Best-Upgrade-more-MPGs-OBD0-OBD1-/200916589731?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2ec78fdca3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Civic-Acura-Integra-Fuel-Injectors-Best-Upgrade-more-MPGs-D16-B16-B18-/200916104148?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2ec78873d4

sobe_death wrote: So you guys with Civics, I'm not sure how much the injector servicing costs, but these aren't terribly expensive and offer a much nicer spray pattern than the OEM injectors. If I had one of these cars still, I'd be updating it from the pee-stream design of the originals http://www.ebay.com/itm/88-91-Honda-CRX-HF-D15B6-Fuel-Injectors-Best-Upgrade-more-MPGs-OBD0-OBD1-/200916589731?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2ec78fdca3 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Civic-Acura-Integra-Fuel-Injectors-Best-Upgrade-more-MPGs-D16-B16-B18-/200916104148?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2ec78873d4

Cool thanks. I am looking thru his stuff.

ok ... just to satisfy my curiosity ( the links all specify better gas milage )

my Honda is my "race" car ( a-x, and TT) are these injectors specifically for better millage? or good for performance also ( the write ups don't address that )

wbjones wrote: ok ... just to satisfy my curiosity ( the links all specify better gas milage ) my Honda is my "race" car ( a-x, and TT) are these injectors specifically for better millage? or good for performance also ( the write ups don't address that )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310cc-Honda-Civic-Integra-Turbo-D16-B16-B18-H22-Fuel-Injectors-JDM-D15B-ZC-VTEC-/200917172232?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ec798c008

Maybe these would work better for you?