My wife currently drives a 2002 first gen Toyota Sequoia with 267k miles. It still runs fine but has a list of problems including: the A/C doesn't cool very well, one valve cover leaks oil on the exhaust, it is in constant need of an alignment, has a constant wind whistle from around the upper windshield which is awful on the interstate, the interior is really worn (seats are cracking, trim is broken, heated seats don't work), a front pulley has recently developed a horrible squeak for the first couple of miles of driving, and it gets horrible gas mileage. Not to mention we never use the 3rd row seats, or toe with it, and recently have stopped taking it on long road trips but have been taking my truck instead because it is just more comfortable and quiet.
On a road trip last weekend we discussed replacing her Sequioa with a smaller SUV but not a cute ute. My wife likes the upright height of the Sequoia, dislikes minivans, and doesn't want a station wagon or sedan. My kids go to the same school where she works, so all three of them ride in it. It's hot in TN for what seems like 10 months out of the year. We don't need 4wd or AWD because we still have my truck but I won't rule something out because of that. And if we do get a smaller SUV we still have a roof box and cargo rack that could be added for extra storage on long trips.
Shopping criteria are $15k or less, 125k miles or less, room to seat 4 comfortably, one kid is 12 and already 5'5", so tiny backseats won't work. Cargo space to fit a chocolate lab in the back. Reliable, safe, and better gas mileage than 12.
She likes the Durango, Explorer, Highlander, and CX9. Anyone have first hand experience with these? Or are there others we should consider?
Javelin
MegaDork
6/16/22 11:26 a.m.
In reply to octavious :
CX9 is very much a CUV with a transverse Ford motor and a vestigial 3rd row. Good car, but probably not what you want.
I'd look at 1st gen Cayenne S. I paid $12,700 for mine, it's a real SUV, and it's very capable and comfortable.
Volvo XC70 could be a dark horse candidate, transverse motor but very upright seating and roomy.
Durangos don't seem to last but there's lots of Explorers. The Explorer went from body on frame to transverse CUV, and is now a longitudinal SUV. They all have various motor issues.
A Nissan Xterra could fit what you are looking for too but nice ones are getting hard to find.
My parents have a Highlander and in my opinion it drives and feels a lot like a minivan.
The Highlanders in your price range with the 3.5 V6 are bulletproof. I own a 2009 Sienna and 2018 Sienna and can't recommend them enough. The extra space the minivans give is very handy. But if you don't use/need the 3rd row, Highlander will do fine. Expect 23 mpg on the highway and 19-20 in town.
Highland also comes in Hybrid! The best it does is about 28 mpg but that should be near double what you're getting. Sure, its a little minivan-ish in feel but the look is what all the "car pool" moms want. If more cache' is needed there is a Lexus version too.
Outlier: Toyota Venza is similar to Highlander in size just a little less trunk and no 3rd row option. Generally a classy ride that filled the little space between Rav4 and Highlander.
nocones
PowerDork
6/16/22 11:45 a.m.
I know it's not on your list but we shoped the Explorer, CX9, Highlander, Pilot in 2018 and ended up with a Hyundai Santa Fe. It looks like one from this generation would be just at or slightly above your price range. We thought it was the beter value compared to the pilot/highlander. The explorer drove more "Truck like" which my wife didn't like.
Our Santa Fe has 97k miles on it. It's averaged 22 mpg and gets about 26 on pure highway use. I tow 3500lbs pretty regularly (it probably has 15k miles towing) with an open trailer and get 16-17 towing. It has had 0 mechanical issues and only had 1 visit to the dealer when the drivers window lost it's mind which was repaired under warranty. Towing is 5K lbs with a 500lb hitch capacity. The only knock is it uses a 6 speed auto and most of the competition has a 8 speed. It's fine but when towing it would be nice to have a gear or two between 5/6. The interior has handled 2 kids doing kids things from ages 5-11. 3rd row folds flat and has reasonable room for passengers.
Do the RDX and Cayenne take premium? Because premium down here is 55-60 cents more a gallon. That's also a consideration.
I do like me some Porsche, but don't know much about the Cayenne. Not sure it will work, she hates those vehicles which are considered fancy, Mercedes, Land Rover, and Porsche. After seeing some of the cost of the air cooled parts I've bought she also has a fear of parts cost.
Interesting to know the Explorers had engine issues, what Fords didn't with cam phasers and spark plugs in the F150s and Mustangs?
What year Santa Fe, my mother in law has one and she doesn't like it because you sit down in it. MILs is a first gen I believe.
I'd put a Subaru Forester on the list. The visibility is fantastic, gas mileage is around 25 or so, lots of room inside. Roof racks work great, and you can get a hitch if you want. My partner has a 2016 that we use for dog transport (50lb rescue) and road tripping. We took it last fall from seattle to yellowstone with no issues at all. I do all the oil changes myself and we have never had a mechanical failure of any sort. No third row to take up room and the seats fold pretty flat, it's been a great vehicle for us. Only thing I wish we had was a higher trim level with projection headlights, I like good night visibility but the basic model doesn't feel like a penalty box at all.
In reply to octavious :
On the question of Premium Fuel, spend some time playing around at https://www.fueleconomy.gov/ which will tell you the grade recommended per specific vehicle. Also the compare feature can be used to see annual fuel cost/savings.
nocones
PowerDork
6/16/22 1:15 p.m.
In reply to octavious :
Ours is a 2018. It's apparently a 3rd Gen Long wheelbase with the 3.3. They where available 2013-2018 basically the same but there was a facelift and interior update for better Infotainment.
octavious said:
What year Santa Fe, my mother in law has one and she doesn't like it because you sit down in it. MILs is a first gen I believe.
There are still first gens on the road? Look, I'm a Korean car fanboi through and through but the first gen Sante Fe was trash. And it was small. It was about the same interior space as a first gen Rav but with a hideous nose, gas guzzling engine options and super cheap interior. You would do yourself a favor to look at the newer Sante Fe and the Kia version the Sorento. Inlaws have a 3-row fwd Sorento that gets about 28 on the highway @ 70mph, they've had it for 6 years and 110k miles without an issue and they aren't real good about preventative maintenance.
Haven't seen this mentioned yet, what about a grand Cherokee? There's a Zillion out there.. passed by a 2014 yesterday with 75k miles and new brakes/tires listed at $15k, that era seems to have good deals. Great size for hauling, regular gas, and decent tow rating too.
I really like our '06 Rav4, check out the '06-12 models with the V6. The rear seat slides back and forth, in the rearmost position you end up with a surprising amount of legroom.
The newest and nicest 4th gen 4Runner you can find (2009 last year of 4th gen). I've owned a 2007 Sr5 for the past 4.5 years and love it. I have the V6 4wd and average 21-22 mpg per tank in the summer mostly highway driving in flat country. It is basically a 2wd/AWD/4x4 in one multi-mode system (look it up). The rear roll down window is handy. The interior is a little small and headroom isn't the greatest. I've had the itch to go back to a fun car but just can't bring myself to get rid of it. If thats too old, I would second the V6 Rav4 up to 2012 model year. No experience with the one's you listed.
A friend of mine has one of the V6 Highlanders from the mid-2000's, and loves it. Supposedly it'll rip off a quarter in under 15 seconds, which is useful for jockeying for pole position in the school pickup lanes.
Mrs. VCH just went from a GMT400 Suburban to a new Chevy Traverse. The Traverse honestly doesn't give up that much in interior space, and goes twice as far on a gallon of fuel. I had one for 2 weeks as a rental and kindof really liked it. 300 hp and speed governed to a buck thirty is a pretty nice combo on desert roads.
My mom bought a GMC Acadia, which is essentially a Traverse with about a foot less length. She also likes it a lot. Buick's Enclave and the Caddy CT5 (IIRC) are similar platform. The old formula- big, understressed GM V6, FWD, conservative design.
I DD a '04 Highlander. I like it way more than I should. Just came back from a 6k mile cross country road trip and it didn't miss a beat. Based on the reputation of the later gens, I'd imagine you'd have a similar experience. Only potential issue would be lack of real 3rd row, but that isn't relevant to my needs.
I have a 2012 Highlander base model FWD 4 cylinder. 3rd row seats rarely used but nice to have. Aside from the built-in basic radio that is near impossible to upgrade, it's been an outstanding vehicle. Definitely available in your budget, maybe way below.
The limited V6 would surely be more fun but don't dismiss this one. It's got a six speed auto and the four cylinder moves it along far better than it should. ~24mpg highway on the cheap gas. Around 19 in town.
You see these for sale with way over 200k miles all the time - they're durable. Would buy another in a heartbeat.
Thank you all so much. Now more questions...
How is the interior of the Highlander? Do you guys have leather or cloth? Cost wise around here they are less than the 4Runner more than the RAV4. We don't need 3rd row seats, but do the rear seats slide like in the RAV4? Do they have backup cameras?
Similar question, I drove an Acadia about 3 years ago at CarMax and it was just ok. I don't recall what year it was, but I remember the interior feeling kind of cheapish. How is the interior on those? Do they all have captains chairs and then a 3rd row? Do they have back up cameras? Does the Traverse have a similar ride height to the Acadia?
There is a premium price you pay for the Toyotas, and a premium resale value, however the Mazdas can be found for cheap. Should that be a concern?
She is basing her opinion mostly on looks unless it meets a criteria she doesn't like, I.e. premium gas. In order for her it is
Durango
Highlander
Grand Cherokee
Possibly Honda Pilot
I haven't looked at 4Runners because most of seen in the price range have crazy high miles, and if we wanted that we'd just keep the high mileage Sequioa.
My MIL had a 2007 Highlander, which I've spent some time in. It feels slightly wider than the RAV4, but in terms of rear legroom I think the RAV4 had just as much (if not more). Also the 3.5L V6 in the Rav4 was much better than the 3.3L in hers (more power, better economy). Space behind the 2nd row feels about the same. In my opinion, the RAV4 drove much better than the Highlander.
I'm a fan of the Pilot's, as well. My wife drives a '16, and it's a great place to be. The only reason I didn't recommend it is that I think they may be out of the budget with the used car COVID pricing craziness. I've never driven the prior Gen Pilot, but the '16 drives so much better than our '17 Odyssey. Plenty of room, the engine feels much more responsive, and the transmission programming seems to be much better than our Odyssey (it's the same transmission). I just did a KBB on ours ('16, EX, AWD, 100k) and they said it would sell at a dealership for about $21k.
My parent's '08 RAV4 with the V6 is probably the most reliable car my dad has ever owned (and at 75 he's probably owned 50 cars). They didn't start putting in the sliding rear seat until the face lift, just FYI.
It drives nice, is fast with the 268HP V6, and he has never done anything than oil, pads, and maybe shocks. He can't even remember chaning a light bulb in it. It's the Limited and is not a terrible place to spend time. It's got over 150k IIRC and is solid.
I'd be looking at CX-5s and CX-9s too, if you can find them in that price range. The 2.5 Skyactiv motor is solid and they supposedly drive better than all the other SUVs.
I'd pass on the Hondas with the 3.5 V6. The trans is a known weak point. I had a friend who was a Honda tech that said the trans fluid needed to be changed as often as the oil to keep them from being problematic. I doubt most owners have done that at this point.
I know of three folks with Acadia/Traverse models and they have been remarkably bulletproof. Normally I wouldn't jump straight to an American car to replace a Toyota, but they're at least worth a drive. Mom's Acadia is downright luxurious and built tank-like.
Sonic
UberDork
6/18/22 9:04 p.m.
I don't know if they meet the budget in current times but my mom has a 17 CX5 GT and it is fantastic. Really nice to drive, all the safety features, great quality all around, zero issues. When I drive it I am always impressed and she loves it even coming out of an E46 wagon.
My 2012 base highlander interior has bland tan cloth but black carpet. I added black weathtech mats in front since I'm in dirty work boots a lot. It's the opposite of loaded but it has cruise, pw/pl. I had to add aftermarket backup camera. Everything is holding up well. It is also easy to add leather on these and a lot of the ones with leather were aftermarket kits. My second row seats recline and slide forward and back - not sure if that's only because of the third row seats.
I have a friend with a loaded 2018 GMC Acadia and it's a nice car. It feels less solid and refined to me (versus the Toyota) but it may just be my own bias - overall it's fine.
I don't know anything about Durangos but my gut says avoid. Same for Grand Cherokee.
