V-8 911

tooms351 wrote: Redneck? Dosen't that pretty much sum up this website,

guilty as charged. I may have been accused of having too much sun exposure to the skin near my cervical vertebra

bravenrace wrote: Okay, I'm still a little intrigued by this car. I wouldn't keep the iron lump in the back. I'd have to do something different, so here's some questions for anyone that may know. 1. How much do you have to cut up a 911 to put that V-8 in it. IOW, how hard would it be to undo? 2. What determines if a 911 is an "S" or not? Did anyone else notice that the seats are CRX-si Recaro's?

It should have an "S" at the end of the VIN.

I'm not sure how much cutting needs to be done to install a V8, but a bigger concern to me would be how much cutting was done to install all that fiberglass.

Woody wrote:

Maroon92 wrote: At 40K, you're a little low. A 1967 911 in good shape is 60K almost minimum now. The long hood 911s and 912s have been increasing at about 30% a year for the last three years...

Yeah, if that turns out to be a 67 911S, somebody will buy it and put it back to normal. Last year, I bought some parts from a guy who put a 350 in a '74 and planned to use it as a track day car. It makes a little more sense with a '74-'77 car. I suspect that the '67 underwent the conversion quite a while ago: Before long hood car values went through the roof and the LSx became the new small block Chevy.

I agree. I'd guess the original V8 conversion probably happened in the '80's, and some other upgrades, like the Center Line wheels happened later. Probably late '90's.

It's probably a hoot in a straight line.

Now doesn't the LS share the same trans bolt pattern as the SBC?

In reply to Woody:

Okay, but what differentiates them? What is different between and S and a non-S?

S was the top of the line model that "mere mortals" could buy - for the long hoods, it's the most powerful and also the most sought after one. If you exclude the special models like the R/RSR/ST etc, it's also the rarest of the regular models.

Woody wrote: I'm not sure how much cutting needs to be done to install a V8, but a bigger concern to me would be how much cutting was done to install all that fiberglass.

A fair amount, is my guess. As a quick glance it'll need bumpers, front and rear hoods, front and rear fenders and a tank in the hope that they only chopped about the tank and not also the front suspension pan. The latter would be decidedly unfunny as it's rather structural, and that's before you get to whatever they did to fit the engine out back.

I might make a better RSR replica than converting it back to stock-ish, that way one might be able to reuse at least the front fenders with some modifications and fg panels for the rears.

BoxheadTim wrote: In reply to tooms351: ...If you've driven a regular 911 (not even an SWB one), which I assume you have, you already know about how the weight in the rear becomes very noticable when you push the car hard. I'm pretty sure I personally don't need a bigger lump of cast iron hanging out there....

Some of the weight will be counter balanced by the new radiator in the front. But another important consideration is that the center of mass of a 911 engine is very low (essentially the centerline of the crank). A V8 is going to carry it's weight MUCH higher, increasing roll etc.

S had more power - like 158hp vs 130 for the T or L models and the Fuchs wheels.

noddaz wrote: Now if that car was turbo Subie powered...

That is a worthy conversion, but I'd much rather see a better balanced car.

Start with an old 912 or something so you aren't devaluing an S.

Remove the rear seats and install a Cobalt SS turbo Ecotec engine and transaxle with suitable stealth - if possible - cover. Those tunable engines can run a 2900 lb. Cobalt through the 1/4 in around 12 seconds when tuned, so should be even more interesting in an old Porker that weighs around 600 lbs. less.

You could turn the old engine bay into a small trunk just to surprise the other people at the Porsche picnic (assuming word didn't get around and they lynched you first)

bravenrace wrote: In reply to Woody: Okay, but what differentiates them? What is different between and S and a non-S?

Basically some higher spec camshafts and wider deco trim on the rockers and bumpers.

Not enough to justify a 100K jump over a standard 911, IMHO...

There is not nearly enough room up front to run an inline 4. It'd stick a foot above the hood.

Where would you put the fuel tank?

There's no transmission/driveshaft tunnel to run that through...

I don't think it's plausible.

Rob_Mopar wrote:

Woody wrote:

Maroon92 wrote: At 40K, you're a little low. A 1967 911 in good shape is 60K almost minimum now. The long hood 911s and 912s have been increasing at about 30% a year for the last three years...

Yeah, if that turns out to be a 67 911S, somebody will buy it and put it back to normal. Last year, I bought some parts from a guy who put a 350 in a '74 and planned to use it as a track day car. It makes a little more sense with a '74-'77 car. I suspect that the '67 underwent the conversion quite a while ago: Before long hood car values went through the roof and the LSx became the new small block Chevy.

I agree. I'd guess the original V8 conversion probably happened in the '80's, and some other upgrades, like the Center Line wheels happened later. Probably late '90's. It's probably a hoot in a straight line. Now doesn't the LS share the same trans bolt pattern as the SBC?

Yeah, those Centerlines were probably baller as hell around 1994, but they haven't aged well, IMHO. With the long-hood cars being so glamorized these days (along with the phenomenon of backdating sheetmetal), it blows my mind to see one updated to big bumpers--yet that was pretty common back then.

In reply to Maroon92:

He's talking about mid-mounted.

wspohn wrote:

noddaz wrote: Now if that car was turbo Subie powered...

That is a worthy conversion, but I'd much rather see a better balanced car. Start with an old 912 or something so you aren't devaluing an S.

Mind you, 912s aren't exactly cheap anymore either...

noddaz wrote: Now if that car was turbo Subie powered...

It would sound like absolute E36 M3? Sorry, I don't like the way Subaru turbo flat fours sound, unless they have proper headers, but very few do. I'd much rather listen to a V8.

That said, it would perhaps be slightly better through the corners, though don't forget about the support equipment needed for a turbo 4 (intercooler, turbo, etc. all add up). A Subaru flat six might be an interesting solution to retain some of the 911's character without the expensive engine repairs.

BoxheadTim wrote:

wspohn wrote:

noddaz wrote: Now if that car was turbo Subie powered...

That is a worthy conversion, but I'd much rather see a better balanced car. Start with an old 912 or something so you aren't devaluing an S.

Mind you, 912s aren't exactly cheap anymore either...

this

Clean 912's are kissing $50k now. I have an acquaintance who bought/semi-restored a '67 in the late 90's and it's just about tripled in value.

gamby wrote:

BoxheadTim wrote:

wspohn wrote:

noddaz wrote: Now if that car was turbo Subie powered...

That is a worthy conversion, but I'd much rather see a better balanced car. Start with an old 912 or something so you aren't devaluing an S.

Mind you, 912s aren't exactly cheap anymore either...

this Clean 912's are kissing $50k now. I have an acquaintance who bought/semi-restored a '67 in the late 90's and it's just about tripled in value.

They are "kissing" $50k in asking pricing, but have you seen any actualy exchange hands at that price??

I am on the M491 (Turbo Look) list. A guy there is asking $100k for his not low mile targa. That dosn't mean that that is the new price benchmark.

if you wanted a cheap 911.. go late 70s early 80s. the 912e might be cheap too

mad_machine wrote: if you wanted a cheap 911.. go late 70s early 80s. the 912e might be cheap too

Those aren't "cheap" either, only in comparison with a long hood.

Good SCs and C3.2s are $25k+ - yes, you can have a grotty one for less but trust me, you don't want one. The cheaper ones are the pre-SC ones with the 2.7L, but those are also going up in price.

I could have bought a 1988 911 instead of the M5 a few years back. I love the BMW, but man, that 911 would have made me some money...

Yep.

I sold my 911 in the UK when prices were flat out here, between agreeing the deal, actually selling the car and then getting the money over here prices started to rise considerably and unless I'm willing to borrow more money for a 30 yo car that I'm really comfortable with, I think that was it with me owning 911s. My budget always seems to lag the prices by about 6-9 months.

Bailing wire and tie wraps!

One thing that nobody seems to have considered is the probability that this car was a total rust bucket prior to the conversion.

Anyway, the S is the highly desirable one from a collectibility standpoint, but they make that extra horsepower at high revs. A lower spec 911 engine is a lot easier to live with on the street.

And...I wish people would stop suggesting the 912E as a cheaper alternative to a 911. They were only built in 1976 and I think they sold something like 2100 of them worldwide. They're not exactly plentiful and there are some people who seek them out.

I think Tim nailed it: Don't restore this car. While I'm completely tired of RS clones, this car is the perfect candidate for that treatment. And if you show up at Cars and Coffee with a (short wheelbase) RS clone built on a '67, you'd be Teh E36 M3.

912 for sale (needs restoration according to the seller):

http://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/4284162079.html