Vehicular Purgatory- Help

I am currently in a vehicular purgatory.

Short version:

Own 4 cars of my own (not including wife’s DD).
1 drivable car (used to be) of the bunch (2005 Saab 92x Aero my DD) Other 3 are in various stages or being rebuilt or needing rebuilt.

Spun rod bearing in Saab at track day at Nelsons Ledges...

Deciding what my next move is. Saab was/is great triple threat car... practical in snow, for hauling people and things and was fun to drive at Auto-x and track days

Likely will rebuild Saab but after reading about the alarming number of Subaru 2.0liter motors spinning rod bearings I am leary about keeping it much longer even rebuilt.

Trying to decide what combination of cars would fit my needs best.

Long version/details: Own 4 cars of my own (not including wife’s DD).
1 drivable car of the bunch 2005 Saab 92x Aero- Daily Driver, State 2 cobb tune and supporting exhaust mods, STI struts and springs etc... great fun to drive practical car.

Others.

1991 Eagle Talon TSI AWD- Freshly rebuilt motor, trans, wheel bearings, axles, brakes (less than 50K), Fresh paint (last spring), currently reassembling from paint job (plan was to sell this car for an early 90's MR2 Turbo to use as track toy and Auto-X machine)

1985 Toyota MR2- my first car, rusted (quarter panels, doors, floor pans) 115K miles, starts and runs good, interior is clean, haven’t driven it in years for fear of rusty floor pans, mostly hanging on to it for sentimental reasons...and possibly as parts car. Used to have dreams or rebuilding it but not sure its worth my time now for what you can buy a clean shell for.

1980 Porsche 924 Turbo- Inherited from my dad who passed away from lung cancer 5 years ago. He crashed it a few months before he passed and it needs bumper, fender, and hood to start repairs... also needs some trans work as it would not go into 1st gear anymore. Plan is to rebuild this car. Its is very clean (no rust) low mileage (40K miles) and has a lot of sentimental attachment.

Now as you read above I spun the bearing in the Saab... I am considering selling all these cars but the Porsche. Would like to get some form of practical vehicle and a track car out of the 3.

Practical vehicle also would be nice if it could tow the other car home if needed...

Track Car... inevitably with this group Miata’s will be mentioned (I would consider it (my mom and friends own them).. would like to have a little extra power though)

Budget would be based on selling the cars for approximate values plus a small loan/cash for rest:

Saab $10-12K (rebuilt properly of course)

Talon $3-5K

MR2 $500-1000

I would rather not have to put to much cash/loan towards this but the right combination might be worth it.

Also the Porsche doesn't count as a track toy for me as I couldn't live with myself if I were to wrinkle it up.

Lets hear some suggestions...

fix saab - you enjoy it - use it as a DD - stop driving DD on tracks.

sell talon, part MR2, buy miata, e30 or e36 as track/auto-x toy

You'll have to fix the SAAB anyway, have you checked if there is a fix for the spun bearing issue? I can't believe the aftermarket hasn't come up with something yet. If they have, fix and enjoy, sell the Talon and the MR2 and get a Miata or a better MR2 as a track vehicle.

BoxheadTim wrote: You'll have to fix the SAAB anyway, have you checked if there is a fix for the spun bearing issue? I can't believe the aftermarket hasn't come up with something yet. If they have, fix and enjoy, sell the Talon and the MR2 and get a Miata or a better MR2 as a track vehicle.

I have been looking online since it happened. Nothing sounds particularly concrete but the following items supposedly help:

1)setting bearing clearances all on uppper end of factory spec with as little variation between 1-4 cylinders as possible

2) better oil pump, pan, pickup

3) heavier weight oil

I have yet to find anyone that says "if you do this ____" you no longer have to worry about bearings

First thing that popped into my head:

DD = stock,

anything else = goes...

Miata with turbo. DONE.

In reply to ahaidet:

My gut feeling is that (2) is probably going to make the biggest difference.

Raze wrote: First thing that popped into my head: DD = stock, anything else = goes...

Ive been thinking that too. The Saab/Subaru motors are supposed to be good at Stage 2 levels of power but... maybe not.

On the Saab 92x board 4 cars in last 4 months have spun rod bearings. 2 of 4 were stock. So that's what has me on the fence. I enjoy driving the car because in between being practical I can hit on ramps at double the recomended speed. After this I am not sure I can do that anymore without being terrified of it coming apart on me.

Sell me the saab for cheap and get yourself a daily driver that doesn't tempt you to track it. ;-)

p.s. it's awesome that you have your dad's Porsche. Hang on to that, I bet you would regret selling it!!

Swap a 2.5 engine in the Saab!

oldtin wrote: fix saab - you enjoy it - use it as a DD - stop driving DD on tracks. sell talon, part MR2, buy miata, e30 or e36 as track/auto-x toy

I agree here. Fix the Saab and put it back into DD status.
Find another car that you toy/track with and sell off the non-runners to fund the efficient running of the track/toy.

I have been toyng with the idea of selling off the e30 ('87 325is) I bought. My plans were to make it a track car but life keeps getting in the way of that plan. It is a great example of a stock car that is ready to be turned into a track car. It is also in Ohio.

If the cause of the spun bearings is oil starvation, I think putting a baffled sump with the appropriate pickup and an better oil pump on, then installing a good oil pressure gauge with a big honking warning light is probably going to go a long way.

I'd be tempted to fix the SAAB as you like it, but would consider selling it if it spins a bearing again.

Then again, I don't seem to be smart enough to buy a decent vehicle so the advice is worth what you paid for it .

clutchsmoke wrote: Swap a 2.5 engine in the Saab!

I was all for that when it happened... then I started pricing the options to go that route...

STI motors=not cheap+likely abused+have there own sets of problems (pistons, still bearings and oil pickups)+ eventually need beefier drive train (6speed and rear diff) = alot of trouble

Hybrid EJ205/EJ257 motors= not enough history to prove reliability to me from what I have read and opening more cans of worms than I like to have open for a daily driver...

BoxheadTim wrote: *If* the cause of the spun bearings is oil starvation, I think putting a baffled sump with the appropriate pickup and an better oil pump on, then installing a good oil pressure gauge with a big honking warning light is probably going to go a long way. I'd be tempted to fix the SAAB as you like it, but would consider selling it if it spins a bearing again. Then again, I don't seem to be smart enough to buy a decent vehicle so the advice is worth what you paid for it .

At the time of spinning the bearing I was in the carousel turn at Nelsons Ledges when I first heard the noise.. (long right hand turn).
When I pitted in and checked oil level it was just a hair above the F on the dipstick and was changed the night before. Alway changed oil <5000 miles with full sythetic 5W-30.
The tune was pretty conservative and likely was not knocking.

I just put the car up on stands in the garage and started digging into it last night. In a few days I hope to have a better understanding to the extent of the damage and maybe more insight to the cause.

There is a $500 MR2 on CL in Cleveland...
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/2524884979.html

fix the saab and treat it like a dd.... in case there is any confusion that means keep it off any tracks!

fix the porsche and use it as a track toy. it sounds like you cant sell it for sentimental reasons but it is going to be a hard job to make perfect again with the accident and other expenses (like fixing the sab)

sell everything else for whatever you can get for it.

924 probably needs new bushings for the shifter. Common problem with the 79/80 924's with the Porsche transaxle. The later 924/944's with the Audi-based transaxle have different shifter issues. Check out garage.ideola.com for replacement bushings and transaxle parts.

the syncro's are prone to wear on the 79/80 transaxle, but usually putting some fresh Redline fluid and shifter bushings will keep them alive much longer before the case needs to be cracked. Double clutching will help you get around the worn syncro if you need transpo in the meantime. Transaxle is similar to the Porsche 901 unit, except the internals are specific to the 924 and replacement syncro's are still available from the vendor mentioned above.

Body work is the same for most of the the 924's. The exception being the nose panel and hood on the turbo. Hit up 924board.org and see if someone near by has the parts you need.

924 Turbo is a great track toy (I would argue better than the SAABURU) but I understand not wanting to write it off. They are great cars though and absolutely hate to sit.

jrw1621 wrote:

oldtin wrote: fix saab - you enjoy it - use it as a DD - stop driving DD on tracks. sell talon, part MR2, buy miata, e30 or e36 as track/auto-x toy

I agree here. Fix the Saab and put it back into DD status. Find another car that you toy/track with and sell off the non-runners to fund the efficient running of the track/toy. I have been toyng with the idea of selling off the e30 ('87 325is) I bought. My plans were to make it a track car but life keeps getting in the way of that plan. It is a great example of a stock car that is ready to be turned into a track car. It is also in Ohio.

Sorry for the thread jack -

Keep me posted if you go the sell route.

itsarebuild wrote: fix the saab and treat it like a dd.... in case there is any confusion that means keep it off any tracks! fix the porsche and use it as a track toy. it sounds like you cant sell it for sentimental reasons but it is going to be a hard job to make perfect again with the accident and other expenses (like fixing the sab) sell everything else for whatever you can get for it.

The Porsche will likely be a project later down the road. My buddy is a certified body technician and I have done a decent amount of body work so I am not concerned about gettin it straight. Its 90% cosmetic and all those panels unbolt so replacing them is alot easier than if it were a rear quarter. When I finish it won't be seing any track use as I said before...if some bone head where to wrinkle it up (me) or someone else and total it..I can't replace it. It will make a fine weekend cruiser...

turboswede wrote: 924 probably needs new bushings for the shifter. Common problem with the 79/80 924's with the Porsche transaxle. The later 924/944's with the Audi-based transaxle have different shifter issues. Check out garage.ideola.com for replacement bushings and transaxle parts. the syncro's are prone to wear on the 79/80 transaxle, but usually putting some fresh Redline fluid and shifter bushings will keep them alive much longer before the case needs to be cracked. Double clutching will help you get around the worn syncro if you need transpo in the meantime. Transaxle is similar to the Porsche 901 unit, except the internals are specific to the 924 and replacement syncro's are still available from the vendor mentioned above. Body work is the same for most of the the 924's. The exception being the nose panel and hood on the turbo. Hit up 924board.org and see if someone near by has the parts you need. 924 Turbo is a great track toy (I would argue better than the SAABURU) but I understand not wanting to write it off. They are great cars though and absolutely hate to sit.

Thanks for the tip on the shifter bushings.

I have transportation for now borrowing father in laws Ranger. And once I get a handle on what the needs ordered/machined for Saab I will get back to reassembling Talon so I can drive it in the mean time and give back the truck.

ahaidet wrote: I will get back to reassembling Talon so I can drive it .....

Why am I thinking "Famous Last Words" with regards to this statement? Oh right, I've known too many DSM guys :)

Good luck with it though, they are pretty cool rigs.... when they run ;)

In my opinion the durability of the ej engines are not necesarily dependent on the "tune". Though you can wreck a good motor with a bad rom. The ej is hampered by poor oil control. Even if you have plenty of oil, in a long sweeper the oil flows into the head and cant drain back fast enough. In my opinion this is a design issue that hampers the ej engines on the track. The Killer B pan and pickup are good, and they do help, but they dont really "solve" the problem which is inherent to the motor. This is a great car ( I have one too) that makes a very good quick daily driver but it is never going to be a race car.

If you are rebuilding there are a lot of options of course. But I think the simplest/easiest/most cost effective option is to just buy a ej20 shortblock from Fred Beans or wherever. Timing belt, oil pump, water pump, etc and you are good to go. Above that and the sky is the limit both in options and wallet draining. I would just be careful who you listen to on nasioc or other forums. There are a lot of people that ask how to change oil one day and then ask how hard it is to rebuild their motor the next. All the while they are spouting their opinions on bearing clearances, oil pumps, and FSM knows what else.

There is a reason my daily driver WRX has never seen a green flag.

Ojala wrote: In my opinion the durability of the ej engines are not necesarily dependent on the "tune". Though you can wreck a good motor with a bad rom. The ej is hampered by poor oil control. Even if you have plenty of oil, in a long sweeper the oil flows into the head and cant drain back fast enough. In my opinion this is a design issue that hampers the ej engines on the track. The Killer B pan and pickup are good, and they do help, but they dont really "solve" the problem which is inherent to the motor. This is a great car ( I have one too) that makes a very good quick daily driver but it is never going to be a race car. If you are rebuilding there are a lot of options of course. But I think the simplest/easiest/most cost effective option is to just buy a ej20 shortblock from Fred Beans or wherever. Timing belt, oil pump, water pump, etc and you are good to go. Above that and the sky is the limit both in options and wallet draining. I would just be careful who you listen to on nasioc or other forums. There are a lot of people that ask how to change oil one day and then ask how hard it is to rebuild their motor the next. All the while they are spouting their opinions on bearing clearances, oil pumps, and FSM knows what else.

That seems to be the consensus from the knowledgeable people that I’ve heard from. But by that theory then even taking the long right hand on ramp to get on the highway to work could be a problem if I’m taking it at 8/10's...daily. Which if I can't comfortably do that without fear of needing a new short block will really will take away from the joy of driving the car.

The joy of driving this car comes from the practicality and the tossible handling that it has with the STI struts/springs, RE11 tires, RSB and performance alignment. The motor is peppy but not overwhelming torquey, its not a great highway cruiser (geared too low)... in all reality its a nearly perfect compromise at everything (poor man's/northern climate man's 3-series?).

I guess Porsche gets around the Flat engine oil draining dilemma by using there "semi-dry sump"..?

Ok, so you want a dd and a track toy and don't want to get rid of the Saab or Porsche. What was the question? (besides best way to fix oiling issues)