What Car: 911 vs Mustang vs M3

When my EV lease is up I’d like to replace it with a daily driver that has some real cohones. My specific requirements are a 2+2 coupe under $30K. I want something fast, fun to drive, and good looking; a functional back seat is critical. The top of my list right now includes:

2005 Porsche 911 Carrera – 325hp, 273tq / 3075 lbs – 4.8s to 60, ¼ mile in 13.2s
2008 BMW M3 – 414hp, 295tq / 3689 lbs – 4.3s to 60, ¼ mile in 12.7s
2015 Ford Mustang GT – 435hp, 400tq / 3817 lbs – 4.4s to 60, ¼ mile in 13.0s

The Porsche is a no-brainer. Pros: I’ve always wanted a 911, I adore driving them, and the 997.1 C2 is the best version in my budget. Cons: Maintenance and running costs on a 12 year old 911 seem daunting, and I don’t own a lift. The engine is an expensive time bomb.

The E92 M3 is a gem of a car. Pros: It’s a classy and comfortable daily driver that’s also a star athlete on track. Cons: Everything about the car (powertrain, suspension, electronics, etc) is overly complicated and I’d be shopping older, higher mileage cars--so maintenance and running costs would be similar to the 911. High.

I’ve never driven the mustang, so that’s my wild card. As a much newer car produced in much greater numbers, it should be more reliable and much less expensive to maintain than the Germans. But how fun is it to drive? Is it rewarding to toss around in the corners? Is it really a compelling substitute for a 911?

nderwater wrote: I’ve never driven the mustang, so that’s my wild card. As a much newer car produced in much greater numbers, it should be more reliable and much less expensive to maintain than the Germans. But how fun is it to drive? Is it rewarding to toss around in the corners? Is it really a compelling substitute for a 911?

No. It's competent, it's not as engaging as the others. It's hard to say why but certainly the ergos and interior quality play into it. So does who it's tuned up for chassis wise. I'm sure the aftermarket can make it a sharp, composed weapon though ... it's got the potential for sure. And, it does sound better than all but the BMW V8 so there is that. I have no love for the E92+ BMW cars either - the 911 is true to it's roots where the BMW went full on GT car and plays more closely to the Cadillac, Audi 5/6 and other big tourers.

IMO, if I were you I'd look for a pristine E46 M3. It is a fantastic car with 70 less horses and 500 less lbs so similar performance is attainable with a little extra tuning and bits. And it's better looking. And about to appreciate.

Aside from that... a 997 S after the time bomb was solved.

I've been including E46s and 996s in my searches. The problem with those cars is that by now they tend to be on their 3rd, 4th, 5th owners and not as well taken care of as the newer cars. It's getting really hard to find an E46 M3 that is stock, in reasonable shape and doesn't have 150,000 miles on it.

nderwater wrote: I've been including E46s and 996s in my searches. The problem with those cars is that by now they tend to be on their 3rd, 4th, 5th owners and not as well taken care of as the newer cars. It's getting really hard to find an E46 M3 that is stock, in reasonable shape and doesn't have 150,000 miles on it.

Have you looked at the 135 msport cars? Sexy and fast. Very good driver cars. Probably sketchy on long term ownership but there is a warranty for that.

If the current generation of Mustang doesn't quite do it for you, you could try the previous Boss 302 cars. I've seen several, (mostly low mileage cars) at $30k or less. They might bring some of that "special" feel like the Euro cars, but in a lower-maintenance package. At the time they were released, many reviews stated they were comparable to the e92 M3 in performance.

If we can violate your 2+2 requirement, $30k also puts you into G8 GXP territory, or last gen CTS-V. Either one would have much more functional back seats than than the 2+2 coupes you're looking at.

I have a 2005 997 and it has been incredibly problem free. I bought it 3 years ago when it had 50k and it now has 105k. The only things i have done are oil changes every 3k and 3 sets of tires. The down side is the IMS bearing. I believe, by its design, it will fail one day and that flashes through my mind at least once a month.

Where can one find a 997 S manual coupe for 30k?

The Porsche.
All. Day. Long.

I love me some M3, I own an E36 M3 currently as my track car. I've never warmed up to the V8 in the E90 M3's though. Short on torque, long on eating rod bearings and it'll never see a gas station it won't love.

I'm not that into American Muscle. I respect them but don't really burn to own one, so while I'm sure the mustang is a great car, I'd buy the 997/M3 over and over again before I'd ever spend money on the mustang.

Just be careful with the IMS on the 997, I believe the 997.1 got a larger IMS that's far less prone to issues, but it can't be replaced like on the earlier 996's, so if it goes, you're hosed....

The 997S has 355hp versus 325 for the 997 light. The early 997, like mine, has the old 996 IMSB. The new version is better but its still a sealed bearing and the new version is replaceable.

When exactly was the IMS issue fixed in the 911? I love the look of the 997 but would want to buy after the issue was addressed.

Any of these e46 M3s interest you? I loved mine.

e46 M3
e46 M3
e46 M3

I have a 997 and I've had an E46 M3. I love love love my 997. The M3 was wonderful, but it devoured consumables on the track. It's roomier than the Porsche, but I find the Porsche more engaging to drive. The M3 is also a lot easier to live with every day. Putting stuff in the front every morning/afternoon is a pain because my parking spaces all have curbs or walls or blockages in front of them, plus having to pull the hood latch release lever... The M3 has a real trunk that's sizable and easy to access. The front seats flip and out of the way so getting into the back seat is much easier. I don't have as much experience with a V8 M3.

I have had a bunch of Mustangs but I haven't driven the new one.

I'll say again, I love my 911. Like, to the point where it's really affected my hobby - I used to be content to look at car listings and consider all sorts of cars. Now I realize pretty hard that almost every car I look at is a lesser car and I'd rather take the 911 over pretty much everything else. I'm even considering selling my Jaguar XJR because it never gets driven anymore. My daughter still fits in the back seat of the 997, so the Jaaaaaaag simply sits.

Also, the PCA is the best car club in the whole wide world.

I have two of the cars on your list. I'd say drive them. Each one delivers a different experience. I know, not the answer you're looking for, but these are emotional purchases.

+1 on driving a previous gen Boss 302. (if you are considering the Mustang) It's a world apart from the base GT. I'm generally not a Mustang guy.....as they feel huge to me, but the Boss 302 (non Laguna Seca) is a great all-rounder. The Laguna Seca version is great for track days--- but too stiff and uncompromising for daily use.

I'd agree with the good Doc. on the M3---- as they have rod bearing woes and swill fuel at an alarming rate. (13-15mpg is common)

The P-Car is a pretty well known entity. If it's a life-long dream to own a 911, let that be your guide. There are plenty of very low-mileage, babied Porsches out there--- find the best one you can, have the IMS issue fixed.....and enjoy!

And, here, a true story: When I bought my 911, I originally wanted an E46 M3. The M3 is the more logical choice, I figured. Then I decided that, emotionally, the 911 was what I really wanted. So that's what I bought. Fast forward several years, and now I have both in my garage.

Is it me, or are E46 prices already appreciating? Jeez, I may have already missed that train.

The new Mustang--with IRS, nicer interior and less slabby sides--is the first one that's really interested me. The Boss 302 wasn't on my list; I'll try to find one locally to drive.

yupididit wrote: Where can one find a 997 S manual coupe for 30k?

I didn't think I could find a Carrera S for under 30K but it looks like there's one listed in PA. Perhaps there will be more by the time my lease is up: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=449807993

A 997.2 Carrera S or even a base 997.2 just isn't in my budget.

nderwater wrote: Is it me, or are E46 prices already appreciating? Jeez, I may have already missed that train.

Perhaps. The ones I listed are all for sale within the BMWCCA. Prices there always seem high to me. Then again, it is enthusiasts selling generally well cared for cars. That said, I struggled to get $15k for mine (a 2002 MY, 2 owner car with several top shelf mods) with ~85k miles. It was an SMG though, which seem to be devalued compared to true manuals.

I think you're over estimating the 911 costs and underestimating the m3 costs. Also, how about a m5 or rs6? Gotta love a v10.

I enrolled in the BMW M School some years back a spent the weekend driving E90/92 M3s back to back with E60 M5s and E63 M6s. While the M5 is a great car I didn't fall in love with it. I'm just not into big sedans, even when they're nicely tuned--CTS-V and RS6 included.

A buddy of mine just picked up a 997.2S this weekend and I must say, that is a lot of car for the money. I used to think that an M-car or something domestic was the way to go, but I think I will have to give the Porsche a try when the time comes.

I like the domestic stuff, but they just seems so large and bulky. I have a feeling that the German options would suit me much better.

I got rid of my 911 and picked up an E46 M3.

So, there's that endorsement.

What year 911 did you have? What made you decide to switch?

nderwater wrote: Is it me, or are E46 prices already appreciating?

Some arseholes in the magazine business said they were, then some other arseholes with blogs repeated it so now everyone who is selling one thinks they are.

Try to raise the value of your penny stocks like that and the feds will give you a couple years in the tank. It really doesn't seem fair.

nderwater wrote: What year 911 did you have? What made you decide to switch?

I've had two 996s, an SC with Weber carbs, a Boxster 2.7 and a Boxster S 3.2. They're good cars - my favorite was actually the Boxster 2.7 with M030 factory sport suspension.

The 911s are a real handful to drive and the M3 has 90% of the performance (my STU M3 now has probably 125% of the performance) with a lot more usability - back seats that people can fit in, a real trunk, and a less lethal 50/50 weight distribution.