I'm fully aware and on-board with a 240 but what about late 90's-early 2000's? Anything stand out for someone that needs reliability above all else?
I'm fully aware and on-board with a 240 but what about late 90's-early 2000's? Anything stand out for someone that needs reliability above all else?
What you're describing is not even close to reliability.
Good question! I want to know as well. Oh and I want to ignore carbon because that's not the answer that I want to hear 
.
I've been drooling over a 960 wagon with the jump-seat in the backity-back. An LS-3 swap will come later.
-Hamid
I know that my opinion of the volvo brand will rub fanbois the wrong way, but I worked exclusevely with the brand for nearly a decade and cant stay quiet when someone asks if they are "reliable", They couldn't be further from that.
960s arent too bad, IIRC camseals were a huge issue for them though. LS swap fixes that nicely. Rule of thumb, rwd volvos mostly arent too bad.
Anything in that price range is going to have a lot of miles on it, it's not the mileage you really need to worry about, it's the deferred maintenance.
RWD would be 200, 700, 900, S90, all can be found with reliable examples around that price.
FWD/AWD would be 850, S/V70, S40, S60, S80 all can be with reliable examples around that price, I hesitate to mention the pre '05 S40, the other options are better cars in my opinion.
The non turbos have less parts, all of the FWD/AWD are interference engines requiring timing belt replacements, some of the later RWD ones are too.
For reliability, for my money, I'd probably shop for the cleanest, most up-to-date maintenance documentation I could find N/A S/V70.
There's so many variables, though, so it's kind of a tough question to answer. Basically on the White Block cars, the timing belt is the only thing that would make them any "less reliable" than the older Red Blocks, but there's a scheduled time/mileage change interval for the timing belt, so it's only "less reliable" if you are too dense to remember to change it.
This is gonna sound odd but it's not odd if you know me...
Since I'm getting an early bad feeling about my Volvo question, can I also ask about early 2000's Focus (needing a wagon but I imagine they're all the same).
At least rust isnt too big of an issue. My techs used to joke that they were the perfect car to be a specialist tech on because "everything fails except the fasteners". Meaning they were great for upsell and even in new england they come apart without broken bolts.
I believe the joke with the focus is they spent so much on the suspension, they forgot to rustproof any of it.
So what everyone is saying is I should look for the best Honda Accord or Toyota Camry I can find and be done with it?
I really liked my focus. I don't live in the rust belt though. Get the zetec, not the SPI engine. Duratec is even better if you can find one.
ebonyandivory wrote: So what everyone is saying is I should look for the best Honda Accord or Toyota Camry I can find and be done with it?
If you want appliance like reliability, yes. That option wasn't available in volvos, regardless of the price.
Volvos are fine. If you want stuff you can maintain yourself, lose the AWD, and stay 2000 or older. The engines are pretty much bulletproof, the 4 speed aisan warner trans is fairly robust(5 speed auto not so much). They need brakes, steering parts, and the odd power window switch now and then. The rad will leak once in the life of the car. If you buy one thats been properly maintained, they are a pretty troublefree machine.
You can probably buy the world's nicest 240 for $3000 and it will probably still be running with zero maintenance after 10 years. Then I will buy it for $500, put $300 into it and sell it for $1500. Done it 3 times already. If the college kids and hipsters can't kill 'em nothing will.
Thread from this past December.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/teach-me-the-ways-of-swedish-wagons/75730/page1/
I tried to quote myself from there, but the quote loses all of the paragraph structure and becomes a wall of text.
In reply to carbon:
Much appreciated! It's nice to have your perspective.
-Hamid
Nothing wrong with a Volvo, especially if you get the right one. I parted out Volvos for years and have had 4 Volvo daily drivers. I've done a lot of repair work for people with sub-$1000 Volvos too, mostly RWD. I'd shy away from the FWD/AWD/Alloy Block stuff for reliability. A lot of people I know have had these, and they're great til something breaks. It always seems to be something big and expensive. On the other hand, I've only ever seen the old Redblocks break when copious amounts of boost are shoved into them. Like someone said above, the AW70 and AW71 trannys are pretty durable and the manuals are pretty fragile. I've seen a lot of problems with the OD units on the automatics though.
What you should probably avoid:
K-jet. If you don't have K-jet experience, these fuel systems can be a nightmare. You pretty much have to go second hand on the parts too. Also the older K-jet models rust pretty badly. It's a shame, the K-jet cars have better longblocks than the late 80s models.
83 and 84 240 models. The wire harnesses seem to rot the worst these years. The EFI system is exclusive to these years and so are the bumpers and some of the trim.
Regina model 740s from the early 90s. For some reason Volvo used this weird Bendix system on a bunch of 740s in the early 90s. It's a pain. My 1990 740 was one of these and I didn't leave the house without a glovebox full of replacement relays. The turbo models didn't get Regina.
What you should probably look for:
Early 90s 240s are great. They have an intuitive EFI system, get better mileage, the wiring doesn't rot and neither do the bodies. They have better longblocks. In 1990 the con rods were enlarged. Late 80s 240s are pretty good too. Wire rot problem seem to stop in 87-88. I haven't seen anything rusty past 85.
Don't count out 740s and 940s. They're cheaper than 240s and are basically the same under the body work. 740s and 940s may not get you hipster street cred, but they're damn good cars. The turbo models are pretty cheap too.
Of all the Volvos I've had, I never spent more than $1000 on any of them. They were all find daily drivers. They had their problems, but they never kept me from getting around. Of course, the more money you spend, the fewer quirks you have to deal with, usually.
The case for a Volvo daily is simplicity. There's an iron block engine in the front and a beam axle in the back. Bosch LH is simple and easy to fix. There's tons of room everywhere to work. The parts are pretty cheap. And they don't break down that often. I've heard people say that Volvo reliability is a myth because theirs broke down all the time. As with anything, get a good one and it'll treat you well. Buy a cheap one that's been abused and it'll let you down. Pay me now or pay me later, you know. I say go for it. A turbo 740 offers more smiles per hour than a Honda Accord.
Junkyard_Dog wrote: You can probably buy the world's nicest 240 for $3000 and it will probably still be running with zero maintenance after 10 years. Then I will buy it for $500, put $300 into it and sell it for $1500. Done it 3 times already. If the college kids and hipsters can't kill 'em nothing will.
he tells the truth... one of the cars he did this with I now own... 260k miles on a 945ti... it needs lots of little things... but it always starts and gets me to where I need to go... waiting on income tax money so I can get a family car and can afford to take this off the road while I work on it... I could easily drive it to 300k+... if I want to... and who knows I may just do that but from time to time I really keep thinking about moving to a smaller manual car (honestly i'd trade this in a heartbeat for a similar condition yugo)... but that is just because i've had it for a few years and i'm tired of it lol.
I heard Accord, what's going on in here with all this Ikea talk?
RoughandReady wrote: - 83 and 84 240 models. The wire harnesses seem to rot the worst these years. The EFI system is exclusive to these years and so are the bumpers and some of the trim.
my first volvo was a '86 765ti... I paid $500 for it and drove it from Indiana down to FL... it was UGLY, had body panels from at least 3 different cars and a bad paint job that peeled a lot like what I imagine plasti dip peels like... the fan blower to the heat was controlled with a toggle switch that looped outside around the drivers A pillar... it also had bad nivromat struts so the rear end had some major sag
I delivered pizza in it (back when gas was just over a buck a gallon) and the only ever had one real problem with it when the fuel pump relay died... a trip to the junkyard fixed that.
I ended up pulling the engine out and putting it into a much cleaner '89 that had a big window in the side of the block... the wire harness on the '86 had so much exposed wiring from harness rot that I'm amazed the thing never had any real issues... anyway, after a while I sold that to another GRMer when the exhaust turbo seal went out... after 3 years of storing it up in the country at my memas farm I bought it back from him (harness had been eaten by mice) and took the drivetrain and swapped it into an '88 s10...
the big issue with the RWD versions at least is all the little things you need to do on a 20+ year old car... but if you don't mind little quirks and odds and ends the old RWD ones are dead simple to work on mechanically
We got my mom an 03 s80 w/95k in 2010 or something like that for 5k. It has ~160k on it right now and the only actual repairs i've done have been 2 little window regulator pieces (they sell them separately from the regulator for cheap and they arent too hard), front lower control arms (for the bushings being loose), and a preventive maintenance timing belt which wasnt too bad. The pcv system started making a funny noise because it was pulling too much vacuum through the crankcase so i took the plenum off (which is SUPER easy) and stuck a metal Toyota Supra pcv valve inside the giant volvo PCV hose and that's been fine. The worst thing that's happened so far was i had to replace one of the front seat belts because it got stuck and the way it's built makes it very difficult to repair the assembly. I had to pay $180 for a used one because it has an explosive pretensioner in it.
Anyway, you could buy this car for 3k today and i would tell you with all honesty it's a perfectly reliable vehicle for the age.
I've wrenched on 850, S70, V70, S80 T6, XC90 as they all are/have been in the family. Sister just picked up an '06 S40 so I'll be adding it to the list soon too.
My 850 has been my daily driver for about a decade now. It's an '95 GLT, with somewhere north of 200K miles on it, the odometer broke at 141K eight years ago. I've done some work to it, some major work even, but no major repairs that were the car's fault. All cars will need maintenance if you keep them long enough, and will need major work if you do something bone-headed.
This past summer I made the decision to do some more significant repairs with new reman steering rack, tie rods and control arms. Considered maintenance by most, I easily sunk 1/3 to 1/2 the value of the car back into it with those repairs, but I have no intention to get rid of it, and expect it to still be on the road in another 200K miles.
So reliability is relative to the situation, but yes the 850 IS reliable.
bigdaddylee82 wrote: So reliability is relative to the situation, but yes the 850 IS reliable. - Lee
Very true. my 96 850 that I had for 9 months only required oil changes and a set of tyres in it's tenure in my care.
ebonyandivory wrote: So what everyone is saying is I should look for the best Honda Accord or Toyota Camry I can find and be done with it?
In a word....yes.
If you're placing reliability as far and away priority one, those two are the way to go. Civic/Corolla would also fit in that category.
However, that doesn't mean the Volvo can't be a decently reliable car. I had a '96 850 wagon as my DD for nearly 2 years. I put 30k+ miles on it, it had a total of about 150k on it when I sold it. It never left me stranded and had no major issues. Just a few little things here and there. I really liked the car...a lot. It served me as well as I could have ever asked for. I paid something like $1500 for it when I got it and sold it for $1300. I'd definitely recommend it. The Focus? I thought you wanted a reliable car...
Reliable, sub-$3k volvo? Only one answer:
donalson wrote:Junkyard_Dog wrote: You can probably buy the world's nicest 240 for $3000 and it will probably still be running with zero maintenance after 10 years. Then I will buy it for $500, put $300 into it and sell it for $1500. Done it 3 times already. If the college kids and hipsters can't kill 'em nothing will.he tells the truth... one of the cars he did this with I now own... 260k miles on a 945ti... it needs lots of little things... but it always starts and gets me to where I need to go... waiting on income tax money so I can get a family car and can afford to take this off the road while I work on it... I could easily drive it to 300k+... if I want to... and who knows I may just do that but from time to time I really keep thinking about moving to a smaller manual car (honestly i'd trade this in a heartbeat for a similar condition yugo)... but that is just because i've had it for a few years and i'm tired of it lol.
I still miss that car a bit. The only reason I didn't mention 700/900s is he said "appliance". The 700/900s are nicer cars but the trim isn't as robust as the later 200s and I would never own a non-turbo 700/900.
If you get a 240 with the blue interior it will probably look like new. Even in the junkyard the blue interiors are in excellent shape. That blue cloth wears like iron.
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